Author Topic: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges  (Read 19060 times)

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Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2014, 01:21:14 PM »
It must be nice to be sitting here, half the world away, and have all the evidence and testimonies available so that you can make an informed conclusion based on facts rather than emotion and heresay.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2014, 01:54:44 PM »
Obviously you haven't read the article I was referring to, Al! It's a fact that the victim was unarmed and harmless. The jury based their decision not to prosecute the shooter on his assumption at the moment of the killing that his target could be harmful to him. It is a sad verdict  given by the jury, that he killed his victim in error, not with the intention of taking a human life without adequate or sufficient reason. They believe he erred about the reason. To err is human, people say. But what about cops armed with guns, when they take peoples' lives "in error"? Poorly selected and even less trained trained cops? Dangerous America!
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Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2014, 02:01:27 PM »
Harmless? Hardly.

The article is one person's opinion based on conjecture and more than a little speculation. For every article with one perspective, there is another separate article based on a totally opposite perspective. I guess we read and believe whatever fits our narrative best.

I don't claim to have any special insight, but I do tend to defer to a grand jury who spent months discussing, listening and analyzing and has a heck of a lot more information at hand than I do.

And of course, that is only my opinion.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2014, 02:24:03 PM »
And my opinion is, that this decision, whether right or wrong, will send out the wrong signal to Americans and the whole world. If cops whose job it is to protect people do keep causing harm to a part of the population - I don't say a minority - there will be unrest among citizens. America has some tough times ahead.
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Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2014, 02:41:38 PM »
Johnnie, I agree that time will tell. I would, however, be more concerned if the decision as to guilty or innocence was based on the signal that verdict sends out rather than the individual facts of the case.

And the U.S. is one large country with a wide range of peoples and diversity of opinion. I think that one would be making an error in formulating a conclusion on the state of this country based on these fairly isolated incidents.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2014, 03:53:16 PM »
The excessive use of deadly weapons without consequences to restrain abuse is something nobody will keep tolerating for long, no matter how wide the range of people and diversity of opinion is: everybody has just one life to loose.
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2014, 07:16:39 PM »
Johnnie, I agree that time will tell.


In Ferguson they told you already very violently, in Chicago, New York and Los Angeles thousands went to demonstrate still peacefully on the streets. For how long still? Until the next kid gets shot in a playground etc.

Read the BBC coverage.

Maybe the ongoing justice ministry's investigation into whether Darren Wilson violated Michael Brown's civil rights will come to a wiser conclusion and bring peace back to the streets.
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2014, 08:13:50 PM »
Let's hope we also hear about the black cop having shot a white boy in Utah. Why is it so quiet about that? Did they hang him already?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/3/justice-dillon-taylor-after-white-utah-man-fatally/
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Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2014, 10:05:49 AM »
"Did they hang him already?" Gotta love those experts from other countries who work to prove the conclusion they have already reached about the US.

Oh, and here is some of the grand jury testimony concerning that "harmless" fellow.


http://www.ijreview.com/2014/11/207574-grand-jury-testimony-reveals-got-ferguson-narrative-wrong-hulk-hogan-angel/
 

Offline thaiga

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2014, 12:58:04 PM »
Ferguson shooting: Protests spread across US

Crowds have gathered across the US to protest against Monday's decision not to charge a police officer over the killing of black teen Michael Brown.

Demonstrations from New York to Seattle were mostly peaceful, with protesters chanting and waving placards.

In and around the St Louis suburb of Ferguson, scene of major riots on Monday, 2,200 National Guard troops were deployed to stop further unrest.

Meanwhile, the officer who shot Mr Brown said he had a "clean conscience".

Darren Wilson shot Mr Brown, 18, on 9 August in Ferguson, Missouri, sparking weeks of unrest.

Many in Ferguson's predominantly African-American community had called for the officer to be charged with murder, but the grand jury's decision, announced late on Monday, means the police officer will not face state criminal charges over the shooting.

Lawyers for Mr Brown's family have denounced the grand jury's decision as "unfair".

'Black lives matter'

With the number of troops more than trebled, the situation in Ferguson was calm for most of Tuesday, though demonstrators briefly closed a major road in central St Louis and rallies were staged outside the federal court house.

Late in the evening, however, tension began to rise in Ferguson. Protesters set a police vehicle alight after failing to overturn it, and police began to clear streets.

FULL STORY: bbc.com
Ferguson shooting: Protests spread across US
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2014, 06:58:04 PM »
Rumors are that the Ku Klux Klan has been active again last night in Ferguson, setting a church and several black-owned businesses on fire. There are speculations that the Ku Klux Klan infiltrated the police force there. Hacker group "Anonymous" even claims to have evidence for that.

Also: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ferguson-police-mole-helping-anonymous-identify-kkk-link-darren-wilson-1476508
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Offline Roger

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Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #101 on: November 27, 2014, 08:07:10 AM »
I am surprised to find myself having some sympathy with Darren Wilson the Police Officer.
By most accounts it seems likely that Michael Brown's behavior that night was quite violent and he was 'pushing his luck' to extremes. Was it 12 shots though ? That seems excessive ...
Some of the Demonstrators are no doubt sincere but certainly IMO the event has been used generally by the angry and disenchanted (incl. the KKK?) in an over-excited spirit, to party at expense of truth and democracy.
I thought Pres. Obama made a fair if unsuccessful pre-emptive analysis. 
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #102 on: November 27, 2014, 09:16:11 AM »
The more I hear about Darren Wilson's testimony in front of the Grand Jury and his assertions in his TV interview the less credible I find them. Who in his right mind would approach a cop, who holds a gun in his hand, in the way described by him?

And then there is the DA McCullough, who obviously has been biased. Lots of thing don't fit together.
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Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #103 on: November 27, 2014, 11:12:25 AM »
Who in their right mind indeed? Police everywhere face people in the worst of circumstances everyday.

Whether one believes or not, the American justice system has reached a verdict. A group of regular people listened to and saw the evidence presented and reached a conclusion to the best of their ability.

I respect their conclusion.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2014, 05:04:20 PM »
Why should it not be respected? It can be criticized though. In a sensitive affair like the taking of the life of an unarmed person under still not fully clear circumstances, there should have been a public investigation in the form of a trial. A "whitewashing" by a jury of people without any legal education and training under the guidance of a biased District Attorney did not serve the importance of this case.

The Grand Jury found there were not enough evidence to prosecute Darren Wilson. Did they find enough evidence for an "innocent of all charges" verdict? It was not their task to decide whether he is guilty of something or completely innocent! That's why Darren Wilson is only "presumed innocent". The Grand Jury decided that the state does not have to go to the trouble finding out, whether he is guilty or innocent, whatever their reasons might have been.
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Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #105 on: November 27, 2014, 06:06:38 PM »
A jury, whether formed for a trial or a grand jury, is still based on the same pool of people.

Whitewashing - LOL - All evidence was provided. Under still unclear circumstances? - to you maybe, but then you were not there to see and here all evidence provided.

Sorry that you don't agree with the U.S. legal process.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2014, 06:30:04 PM »
Sorry that you don't agree with the U.S. legal process.

Critical distance came with my education in law school. The U.S. legal process is known for lots of misjudgements, too many of which kept people for too long in jail or even killed them, and on reversion let many go free, who would have deserved otherwise. Impress me with convincing facts. Haven't seen any for your argumentation in this case yet. You just keep repeating: "you were not there to see and hear all evidence provided". I can read the protocols on the internet to base my opinion on. Were you there? Did you need to be there to form your opinion? Judges usually don't witness a crime, either. They form their opinion and verdict on what they find out from the different testimonials. That doesn't mean they only and fully believe one witness or the defendant. They look for convincing facts, best reported by credible witnesses in unison. Of course they can err; if the defense finds relevant errors, it can appeal. Can somebody appeal against errors of the Grand Jury in their decision about not opening a trial?

For example: in Germany a victim can take steps to force the DA (Staatsanwalt) to prosecute (Klageerzwingungsverfahren). Of course the victim who attempted in vain to force the DA to prosecute will have to pay for that case, if a court with real judges found no reason to prosecute. I'm sure, the NAACP would be willing to support Michael Brown's parents in such a law suit. But things are "shorter" in America.
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Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #107 on: November 28, 2014, 04:23:27 PM »
In that in the U.S. the accused is guaranteed a right of a jury trial, judges don't make the innocent/guilty determination so I can only assume that you are referring to a different country when you continue to refer to what judges do or do not do. A jury trial guarantees the defendant a jury of his/her peers who are mandated to determine guilt or innocence. The judge cannot offer his/her opinion on guilt or innocence.

In the US, as I pointed out your error in your previous conclusion over the Zimmerman trial verdict, there are no options for further appeal unless the defendant raises legal issues that prevented him/her from a fair trial. The prosecutor is done if the jury finds the defendant innocent.

Concerning a grand jury, unless additional evidence is found there are no options for a second grand jury. In this case the prosecutor stated at the beginning of this grand jury that he would be providing all available evidence.

Concerning the government's case - the problem is significantly harder to prove re: a civil rights violation. A grand jury has already determined that there was no justification for a criminal trial, which makes the government case that much more difficult.

In the U.S. one can always sue another person. However if the person who instigates that suit loses, it could be costly financially. The loser is often saddled with court and legal costs. Additionally, in that I suspect the Brown family has little money for the high cost of attorneys, there would need to be a real fiscal incentive and the distinct possibility of a successful suit in the potential lawyer's eyes before he/she made a decision to take on their case.

I think that this is a good thing in that it, hopefully, prevents frivolous, often expensive lawsuits.

P.S. To be honest, I know little or nothing about the legal systems in other countries. That said, a while back there was a trial in Italy of a young American college student who was accused of killing a roommate in some kind of sex game that went horribly bad, according to the prosector. That trial when on for months and months and months and she was finally found innocent. Then, via some kind of appeal system, the prosecutor was able to get a new trial. Of course she has since left the country with no plans to ever return. Her parents have been pretty much bankrupted over the costs of the trial, and now it could all start again. Anyway, in following that trial I was amazed and very thankful for the U.S. legal system.
 

Offline Al

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2014, 09:05:11 AM »
One person's opinion on why professionals do not shoot to wound . . .

http://bearingarms.com/professionals-dont-shoot-wound/
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2014, 09:32:22 AM »
Al, Darren Wilson shot an unarmed alleged "attacker". He claimed before the Grand Jury, that he was afraid of his body force. When some part of your body hurts, your 'alarming' nerve system also influences other parts through the control center, called brain, so that you cannot use your body force with as much power and control anymore.The fact remains, that Darren Wilson made excessive use of his gun! If it is true that he was attacked, the use of a taser would have been sufficient for defense.The jury erred! The reasons behind this error are various, and it doesn't appear as purely accidental to me, whatever you might say!
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Offline thaiga

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #110 on: December 02, 2014, 01:08:49 PM »
Barack Obama vows to address 'simmering distrust' between police, minorities after Ferguson unrest

Washington: United States President Barack Obama, grappling with how to respond to the racial unrest in Ferguson, Missouri, and a wave of anger at law enforcement officials across the country, said he would tighten standards on the provision of military-style equipment to local police departments and provide funds for police officers to wear cameras.

But Mr Obama stopped short of curtailing the transfer of military-grade gear to local law enforcement authorities and continued to put off a visit to Ferguson. Instead, the White House tried to channel the rage over the fatal police shooting of a black teenager there into a national debate about how to restore trust between the police and the public.

Administration officials said they concluded after a review that the vast majority of transfers of military-style equipment strengthened local policing, even after the police in Ferguson were criticised for heavy-handed use of such gear to quell protests in August.

But the officials said local authorities needed common standards in the types of hardware they request and better training in how to use it.

The changes were modest, and Mr Obama himself was circumspect in remarks about Ferguson after a day of meetings at the White House with civil rights and religious leaders, big-city mayors and law enforcement officials. Mr Obama seemed eager to keep the focus not on what happened in Ferguson but on its broader lessons for the country.

"Ferguson laid bare a problem that is not unique to St Louis," he told reporters, describing a "simmering distrust that exists between too many police departments and too many communities of colour".

He called for a "sustained conversation in which, in each region of the country, people are talking about this honestly".

Also on Monday, US Attorney General Eric Holder said he would release guidelines soon to limit racial profiling by federal law enforcement, a move long awaited by civil rights advocates.

The Ferguson case, with its fiercely disputed facts, has posed a particular dilemma for Mr Obama, forcing him to balance his sympathy for the anger it has aroused among African-Americans with his commitment to the rule of law. He has not spoken about it in the raw, personal tones he brought to other racially charged cases, like the shooting of Trayvon Martin in 2012 or even the arrest of Henry Louis Gates jnr in 2009 for disorderly conduct after the police thought he was breaking and entering his own home.

The limited nature of the White House response also reflects the reality that transferring military-style surplus gear to police departments remains politically popular in Congress and in the municipalities. While Congress held hearings after the initial unrest in Ferguson in August, it has not acted to curb its grants and transfers of such equipment.

The militarisation of police has been part of a broader counterterrorism strategy of fortifying US cities, which took root after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, and has become a reliable source of federal largesse for local authorities.

With no legislation likely, Mr Obama has, instead, focused on standardising regulations across the multiple federal agencies that supply this equipment to cities and towns. He would also seek to improve training and require "after action" reports for incidents involving federal equipment.

Criticism of the practices swelled after the police in full body armour, on heavily armed vehicles, confronted protesters in Ferguson with assault rifles.

But administration officials noted that only 4 per cent of the surplus equipment transferred by the Pentagon was combat-ready hardware. Most of it is office equipment.

To bolster local policing, the government has also announced a $US263 million ($310 million) program that will provide up to 50,000 body cameras for police. The video footage from these cameras could clarify disputed incidents like the deadly encounter between the teenager in Ferguson, Michael Brown, and police officer Darren Wilson.

Mr Obama also announced the formation of a taskforce to improve local policing. Leading the panel will be Charles Ramsey, the commissioner of the Philadelphia police department, and Laurie Robison of George Mason University, a leading criminal law scholar.

Those at the event emerged from the talks with Mr Obama saying they believed he was serious about responding in a determined way to Ferguson, that their complaints have not fallen on deaf ears.

"I will gladly be calling the parents of Michael Brown and of Eric Garner in Staten Island to let them know what happened in the meeting, but what happens after the meeting will determine whether we just had a feel-good session or whether we're moving towards change. I believe we're moving towards change," civil rights activist Reverend Al Sharpton said.

Eric Garner, a 43-year-old black man, died in July on New York's Staten Island after being put in a police chokehold.

On Monday, protests triggered by the events in Ferguson stretched into Washington, where a group of protesters snarled morning traffic from Northern Virginia into the city by shutting down a key artery at rush hour.

In New York, a couple hundred protesters gathered in Union Square and made their way to Times Square, with a handful arrested before the group dispersed by nightfall, Lieutenant John Grimple of the New York Police Department said.

New York Times, Reuters

theage.com
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #111 on: December 04, 2014, 10:19:54 AM »
Protests After Grand Jury in Eric Garner Chokehold Case Doesn’t Indict Officer

A Staten Island grand jury on Wednesday ended the criminal case against a white New York police officer whose chokehold on an unarmed black man led to the man’s death, a decision that drew condemnation from many elected officials and touched off a wave of angry but generally peaceful protests.

The fatal encounter in July was captured on videos seen around the world. But after viewing the footage and hearing from witnesses, including the officer who used the chokehold, the jurors deliberated for less than day before deciding that there was not enough evidence to go forward with charges against the officer, Daniel Pantaleo, 29, in the death of the man, Eric Garner, 43.

Officer Pantaleo appeared before the grand jury on Nov. 21, testifying that he did not intend to choke Mr. Garner. He described the maneuver as a wrestling move, adding that he never thought Mr. Garner was in mortal danger.
The decision came barely a week after a grand jury found no criminality in the actions of a white police officer, Darren Wilson, who shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old black man in Ferguson, Mo.

Read full article in The New York Times

Concerning a grand jury, unless additional evidence is found there are no options for a second grand jury. In this case the prosecutor stated at the beginning of this grand jury that he would be providing all available evidence.


Quote
Grand juries determine whether enough evidence exists for a case to go forward to a criminal trial, either before a jury or a judge. By law, they operate in secret and hear only evidence presented by prosecutors, who also instruct the grand jurors on the law. Defense lawyers are barred from speaking. For a decision, 12 jurors who have heard all the evidence must agree.


I assume, that the victim, his survivors and their lawyers are also barred from speaking. A secret decision-forming in a suspected-murder case?
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #112 on: December 05, 2014, 02:33:37 PM »
CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Cleveland police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice had issues with handling guns during his brief tenure with a suburban police department.

A Nov. 29, 2012 letter contained in Tim Loehmann's personnel file from the Independence Police Department says that during firearms qualification training he was "distracted" and "weepy."

"He could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal," according to the letter written by Deputy Chief Jim Polak of the Independence police.

The letter recommended that the department part ways with Loehmann, who went on to become a police officer with the Cleveland Division of Police.

(...)

In an interview with the Northeast Ohio Media Group, Loehmann's father said that his son left Independence to pursue a job with Cleveland police because he wanted "more action."

excerpts from: Cleveland.com

Any more to say than "He's innocent, as he can't be held responsible!" Who hires a guy like that as cop and gives him a gun?
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #113 on: December 05, 2014, 02:57:02 PM »
One more time:

Protesters March After Phoenix Police Kill Unarmed Black Man

Protesters demanded Thursday night that Phoenix police identify the officer who shot and killed Rumain Brisbon, a 34-year-old unarmed black father of four children, in a confrontation that critics and community members likened to the deaths of Michael Brown in Missouri and Eric Garner in New York.

About 100 people marched to police headquarters a day after the department strongly defended the decision by the officer who shot Brisbon, who friends and family said was simply delivering dinner to his children, on Tuesday night.

"This one went bad from the standpoint of how it ended, but the officer was doing exactly what we want him to do," Sgt. Trent Crump, a Phoenix police spokesman, said at a news conference Wednesday.

But Ann Hart, chairwoman of the African American Police Advisory Board for South Phoenix, said the shooting only reinforces "the impression it's open season for killing black men."

"We need to look into that," Hart told NBC station KPNX of Phoenix. "We need to take a deeper dive into why police officers are feeling compelled to shoot and kill as opposed to apprehend and detain, arrest and jail."

Another rally was scheduled for Friday night. With police being questioned about the deaths of unarmed black men not only in Phoenix but also in Ferguson, Missouri, and in New York, a nonprofit police foundation in nearby Tempe, Arizona, canceled a fundraising "Run From the Cops 5K" race scheduled for Saturday, citing "sensitivity, respect, and support for all sides of an important debate taking place all across our great country."

Crump told reporters that the officer and his partner were responding to a burglary call about 6 p.m. Tuesday (8 p.m. ET) when a local resident told them that men in a black sport-utility vehicle were dealing drugs. The license plate number given by the resident matched a vehicle owned by a resident of a block where police were already investigating a report of loud music, Crump said, so the officer approached the SUV, whose driver got out.

When the officer told the driver, later identified as Brisbon, to show his hands, the driver instead put his hands into the waistband of his pants, at which point the officer drew his gun, Crump said. Brisbon began to run away, but the officer chased him down, and they began struggling, Crump said.

"The officer believed he felt the handle of a gun while holding the suspect's hand in his pocket," Crump said. Unable to keep his grip on Brisbon's hand, the officer fired two shots, Crump said. The object in Brisbon's pocket was later discovered to be a bottle of pain pills, but an unspecified weapon and what appeared to be marijuana were found in the SUV, Crump said.

The Rev. Jarrett Maupin, an organizer of Thursday night's march, told KPNX that Brisbon was probably justified in fearing for his life and trying to flee when the Phoenix officer approached him and his friend Tuesday night.

"The Phoenix Police Department does not treat white people this way," Maupin said. "What that officer did was harass and accost them."

Marci A. Kratter, an attorney for Brisbon's family, told The Arizona Republic newspaper of Phoenix that eyewitnesses would dispute the official police account and that "we intend to pursue this to the full extent of the law."

NBC news
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #114 on: December 05, 2014, 03:13:24 PM »
Phoenix police: Suspect unarmed when killed by officer

The facts surrounding Rumain Brisbon's death — the ones that could be agreed upon as of Wednesday evening — follow a narrative familiar to a nation still reeling from the racially charged police incidents in Ferguson, Mo., New York City and elsewhere.

In Phoenix on Tuesday evening, a White police officer who was feeling threatened used lethal force on an unarmed Black man. The incident left the officer unharmed and Brisbon, 34, with two bullet wounds in his torso at a north Phoenix apartment complex.

Phoenix police quickly released a detailed account of the killing for the media on Wednesday morning in what officials said was an effort to promote transparency, especially in light of the unrest that has played out in Ferguson and New York City following the deaths of unarmed Black men at the hands of White officers. But portions of that account have already been challenged by some witnesses and community activists who say that the officer's use of force was excessive and that Brisbon's death was unwarranted.

Shortly before 6 p.m. on Tuesday, officers were in the area of Interstate 17 and Greenway Road for a burglary investigation when a resident of an apartment complex told them that men inside a black Cadillac SUV were engaged in a drug deal, said Sgt. Trent Crump, a Phoenix police spokesman.

Police checked the license plate that the tipster provided and found it was registered to a resident in the 15,400 block of North 25th Avenue, where there was also a pending report of a "loud music disturbance."

The loud-music call was canceled, so the officer went to the SUV to ask questions of those inside, Crump said.

The officer said the driver, later identified as Brisbon, got out and appeared to be removing something from the rear of the SUV. The officer told Brisbon to show his hands, but Brisbon stuffed his hands into his waistband, Crump said.

The officer drew his weapon and Brisbon ran toward nearby apartments, Crump said. A short foot chase ensued.

"Witnesses indicated to us that the suspect was verbally challenging to the officer," Crump said.

Brisbon refused to comply with the officer's commands to get on the ground, and the two struggled once the officer caught up with him, Crump said.

"During the struggle, Brisbon put his left hand in his pocket and the officer grabbed onto the suspect's hand, while repeatedly telling the suspect to keep his hand in his pocket," he said. "The officer believed he felt the handle of a gun while holding the suspect's hand in his pocket."

A woman inside an apartment opened a door at that moment, and the officer and Brisbon tumbled inside, Crump said. Two children, ages 9 and 2, were in a back bedroom, he said.

The officer could no longer keep a grip on Brisbon's hand and, because he feared that the suspect had a gun in his pocket, fired two shots, Crump said.

The item in Brisbon's pocket turned out to be a bottle of oxycodone pills, he said.

Crump said the officers are aware of the delicate nature of the case and are asking the community to allow investigators to gather all the facts.

"I would like to think that in our officer-involved shootings, that we are transparent as we can be as an organization," Crump said. "We always have been and always will be concerned about what it is that our residents think about our role in this community and the levels of force that we use.

"Let's be very clear: The officer was doing what we expect him to do, which is investigate crimes that neighbors are telling him are occurring in that part of the complex."

Crump said the department was not identifying the officer, a 30-year-old with seven years on the force.

He also acknowledged that, as in most police investigations, witness accounts varied.

Martin Rangel lives upstairs from where the shooting occurred and said he heard some banging and then a gunshot.

"It was so loud, I heard the vibration through the floor," Rangel said. "I ran to the window, and that's when I saw the cop running out, or like, walking out, and he was cussing, you know, he was screaming, 'F--k, f--k,' like upset that he shot the guy."

Brandon Dickerson, who said he was in the car with Brisbon shortly before the shooting and witnessed some of the incident, said Brisbon was dropping off fast food to his children in the apartment. On Wednesday evening, strewn french fries still littered the front porch.

Dickerson said he never saw the officer try to talk with Brisbon. He also said his friend wasn't yelling at the officer.

"Who's gonna argue with police?" Dickerson said. "He had no death wish yesterday."

Marci Kratter, a Phoenix attorney who represented Brisbon in a previous DUI case and is now representing his family, said she is concerned that the story offered by police is not complete.

"There are numerous witnesses that will challenge the police officer's account of what transpired," she said.

Kratter said she dispatched investigators to the scene to determine whether a civil wrongful-death suit is necessary.

"Tonight, four children are missing their father, a woman is missing her husband and a mother is missing her son," she said. "It was a senseless tragedy. He was unarmed and not a threat to anyone. We intend to pursue this to the full extent of the law."

Civil-rights activist Jarrett Maupin was at the scene Wednesday and said he spoke with Brisbon's family members.

"I think the statements given to me by neighbors, friends and family members are in direct contrast to what has been disseminated by the Phoenix Police Department," he said.

Court records show that while Brisbon was serving a five-year probation sentence stemming from a 1998 burglary conviction,he spent several months in the hospital after being shot. Details of the shooting were not immediately available, but court records state that he had been on "a self-destructive path due to his emotional state" after the shooting.

Records show that Brisbon was booked on suspicion of driving under the influence twice in 2009 and once in October. He also had a marijuana conviction.

Officer-involved shootings are not uncommon, but the events that transpired in Ferguson, Mo., in August triggered a national debate about lethal police force and whether it too often crosses the line in minority communities.

The Aug. 9 death of Michael Brown, an unarmed man, sparked riots in Ferguson and protests nationwide. Darren Wilson, the White officer who shot him, was not indicted.

Then, on Wednesday, it was announced that a White officer would not be indicted in the chokehold death of Eric Garner, who was allegedly selling loose cigarettes on Staten Island.

Karl Gentles, a local leader in the Black community and public policy chairman of the Greater Phoenix Black Chamber of Commerce, said there is clearly a concern in Phoenix, as well as nationwide, that justice is not being served in defense of the African-American community.

Gentles encouraged police to address these perceptions and for city officials to get all the facts surrounding the shooting.

"There has to be some additional communication, dialogue, training, about how Black males are perceived," he said. "Because, as you see from other incidents, Black males are feared with unfound reason in many cases, and there is an explicit overreaction in dealing with African-American males that leads to these contentious situations."

AZcentral
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Online KiwiCanadian

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #115 on: December 05, 2014, 10:19:46 PM »
An interesting perspective from an African American no less.

Quote
Interesting and true.  Disregard the Bill Cosby reference though.  This was obviously written long before his downfall.

This was posted in the Ferguson Scanner, and later deleted. I copied it before it disappeared, and emailed it to myself. I am posting it here because I found this man's message to be in keeping with my own thoughts about the events going on in Ferguson. It's lengthy, but worth reading. See if you agree, and let me know your thoughts (I blanked out references to the ’n' word, for FB rules): JA

My Name is William G. Lillas....
I wanted to clear up a few black and white questions and answers. The things I state are facts. They are not downloaded from some media website, not propaganda, just observations from a 83 year old black man, born in America:
"I was told by my parents (yes, a married man and woman with my last name), that I was n*****. We lived in “N***** Town” in a small Texas town, no A/C, grass growing through the floor, no car, no TV. We washed our bodies with lye soap that my mother made, by hand. I thought I was a n*****, until I graduated high school, went to college, did an enlistment in the Army, and got a job. I am now retired, own my own home, have 6 children by ONE WOMAN, and we all have the same last name. I have a Bachelor’s Degree in Liberal Arts, a Master’s Degree in Sociology. My retirement, VA disability from combat in the Korean War (I only have one leg), and part-time pay in a local college, is about $125,000 a year. From dirt poor n*****, to old, black, proud American.
Yes, I am black, and I can say “n*****”, because I understand the true meaning of the word.
Let’s clear up a few things about the Michael Brown incident.
-Fact: It is not called "shoplifting or stealing", it's called "robbery", which is a felony. Brown stole something and assaulted someone, that means ROBBERY. It’s on video, and it’s a fact. Not shoplifting, not theft, not “lifting” a few cigars, but ROBBERY!
-Michael Brown, like Trayvon, was portrayed by the media as a “little black boy”, cute little headphones, and his cap and gown photo, gunned down by a ruthless police assassin, executed by “whitey”. First, I have never seen a cop drag a person into their car’s driver door to arrest them. So, let us be clear, Michael Brown was a n*****; a sorry assed, criminal, hoodlum, n*****. Nobody wants to say that, but I will. He had a criminal record a mile long, was known for numerous assaults, robberies, including the one you saw with your own eyes, and still refuse to call it a robbery. He was, like so many others, living a life that he thought he was “entitled” to, just for being alive. Gangsta rap, weed, drinking, guns, and those stupid-assed low profile rims, makes him some kind of bad-ass n*****.
-I have fought communist Chinese and North Korean soldiers in the 1950’s with more honor than that n*****. Yep, I peeled potatoes and shot communists. That’s the only job a n***** soldier could get.
Rodney King? Black Riots!
Trayvon? Black Riots!
-Hurricane Katrina? Black Riots! Stealing TV’s, designer clothes, etc.
-O.J. Simpson kills white man and white woman, found NOT GUILTY? Did white folks riot? Nope!
-In fact, when is the last time white people rioted? Civil War, maybe? That’s because they are, relatively, civilized people, much like many black Americans. Protesting is one thing, hell, I’m all for it. Even if you are an ignorant idiot, you have a right to protest.
-Stop only showing the young black "cap and gown" photos of Michael. Charles Manson may have a few of those laying around, as well. Show the n***** "gangsta" photos of the "poor unarmed teenager" (grown man) pics that have been removed from his Facebook page, holding the loaded pistol, smoking weed, with a mouthful of money.
-Militarization? The stupid-assed media that publicizes this has no idea what “militarization” really is. Cops wear helmets and vests, and drive armored vehicle because unemployed n*****s thrown bricks at them, moron! You put on an "Adam 12" uniform and walk down the streets of Ferguson during the criminal riots. I can guarantee that you'll jump into the first armored "military tank" that you see.
-You only "want the police" when you "need the police", otherwise, you mock and fear what you do not understand about the police. And by the way, the police are trained to take your shit, but I wouldn’t around with those Army National Guard, they aren’t as well disciplined “culturally” to take your shit like police do every day. They will ventilate your black asses with M-16s, with military precision and extreme prejudice.
-And finally, the way we protest and demand justice, is run down the streets breaking shit, looting stores, and acting like a bunch of untrained monkeys? Hell, after Rodney King, criminal n*****s were actually killing people, thinking they were entitled to be worse criminals than they already were. For those black criminals that do that, you are a disgrace to your race, inflamed by idiots like Al Sharpton, instead of listening to logic from proud black Americans, like Bill Cosby, Samuel Jackson, Colin Powell, Allen West, me, etc.
-You blame white people for your ignorance, criminal acts, unemployed laziness, etc.
-You blame white people for 89% of the prisons in America being full of blacks. They did nothing wrong, the racists white cops framed them all, right? No chance at school, no chance for college, military, employment?
BULL SHIT!
-More n*****s kill n*****s, than n*****s killing whites, whites killing n*****s, and whites killing whites….COMBINED. I find this astounding.
-It's not white peoples' faults, the Emancipation Proclamation was signed by a white man years ago. You can go to school, get a job, buy a house, and vote, JUST LIKE WHITE FOLKS!!!! You are not a slave, you are not discriminated against! Slavery is abolished, and nobody alive today, was alive when it was popular. Get over it! You are discriminated against because you are a criminal, sorry-assed n*****. Otherwise, black Americans are treated like everyone else.
-If you choose to create "baby daddy and baby mama", and fake disabilities as an excuse for laziness to draw social security disability…… instead of husband, wife, family, job, mortgage, it's YOUR FAULT, not white folks. And there are a lot of proud black Americans that will tell you the same, as I AM ONE OF THEM!!!
-Remember, the way you act on the camera, is remembered by everyone who sees it. They will never forget it. It shows them how you, as the black race, respond to situations that don’t particularly go the way you think they should. It will become a reference standard, something they expect from you when the next media report doesn’t go your way. Stop being stupid n*****s, and be a proud black American. My parents raised me well, but they were wrong about one thing, I am not a n*****.
I will not be around long. While my mind is still sharp, and my aim is still good, my body is eating away with cancer. It started in the prostate, and is spreading rapidly. After I die, I have asked my children to publish my writings, and include my name. Although I am not expecting any miracles, I can only hope that Americans will stop blaming color, start blaming criminals, and see people for what the y really are. We have too many countries that want us dead. We should not be fighting each other.
"William G. Lillas"

 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #116 on: December 06, 2014, 09:13:47 AM »
An interesting perspective from an African American no less.

And you believe this to be genuine?  ;D
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Online KiwiCanadian

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #117 on: December 06, 2014, 11:04:18 AM »
As I said an interesting perspective, just the messenger.

Also some sorry examples as well.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #118 on: December 06, 2014, 03:14:57 PM »
The shooting of black people by irresponsible cops seems to be daily  occurrence in America.

Akai Gurley's funeral: a cry for answers

As another grand jury deliberates on the killing of an unarmed black man by police, a community declares ‘enough is enough’

As another grand jury deliberates on the killing of an unarmed black man by police, a community declares ‘enough is enough’

The rain fell softly on Akai Gurley’s white casket as six men carried it the few metres from the hearse to the doorway of Brown Memorial Baptist Church in Brooklyn.

A few dozen mourners stood under umbrellas, their feet sodden. One held the stars and stripes, another held the red, black and green of the pan-African. Both flags drooped in the cold.

“We can’t take no more,” someone called from the crowd as the casket moved inside for the private wake. Gurley, 28, was another unarmed black man killed by a police officer.

Once the service began around 200 people had assembled inside. The choir sang as people lined up to view the body.

“When you hear laughter, that’s Akai. When you see a smile, that’s Akai,” Gurley’s stepfather, Kenneth Palmer, told the congregation. “Sweet memories, my dear brothers and sisters, is all we have. Let us not forget.”

Gurley was killed by a single shot to the torso in the late evening of 20 November as he descended the darkened stairwell of a public housing block with his girlfriend in one of Brooklyn’s poorest neighbourhoods.

His death is one of a number in recent months that have taken place with perceived police impunity, resulting in thousands of protesters taking to the streets in cities around the United States demanding justice and change.

On Wednesday a Staten Island grand jury decided not to indict a white police officer who in July placed 46 year-old Eric Garner – an African American – in a chokehold before he died of a heart attack. Last week in Ferguson, Missouri, a grand jury declined to indict officer Darren Wilson over the shooting of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown in August, prompting rioting in the suburb and protests that spread throughout the country.

A few blocks down from Gurley’s wake protesters had organised a demonstration, with other protests also expected in Manhattan on Friday night.

Activists and community leaders have called for an indictment of the officer responsible since the shooting was first reported and hope the grand jury, announced on Friday by the Brooklyn district attorney, will return a decision that bucks the recent trend.

But this immediate history reflects what has been happening for decades. Amongst those in the congregation were other black New Yorkers who had lost relatives at the hands of the city police many years ago.

Cynthia Howell’s 57-year-old aunt Alberta Spruill died of a heart attack in 2003 after the NYPD mistakenly raided her house, knocking down her door and throwing a concussion grenade into her Harlem apartment.

“We are sick and tired,” Howell said. “Enough is enough.”

Nicholas Heyward’s 13-year-old-son Nicholas Jr was shot dead in the stairwell of a Brooklyn housing project as he played cops and robbers with a toy gun.

“I feel her pain deeply,” Heyward said of Gurley’s mother, Sylvia Palmer, who had earlier on Friday made her first media appearance calling – through tears – for justice for her son.

“If there is anything I can do to give her support in any way, she is welcome to give me a call.”

The NYPD maintains Gurley’s shooting was the result of a gun going off accidentally as a rookie officer, Peter Liang, conducted a “vertical patrol” of the building with another rookie officer, Shaun Landau. NYPD commissioner Bill Bratton described Gurley as a “total innocent” and said his death was an “unfortunate tragedy”.

Officer Liang reportedly entered the eighth floor stairwell of the block holding a flashlight in his right hand, with his gun held unholstered in the other. Gurley, on the seventh floor, was hit by a ricochet after the shot was fired and stumbled down two flights of stairs, according to reports.

News broke on Friday morning that neither officer could be reached for six and a half minutes in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, as Liang allegedly texted a police union representative instead of reporting the shot and calling for medical assistance.

The NYPD were instead informed of the shooting from a neighbour’s 911 call, according to the New York Daily News.

“No parent should ever have to bury a child and no child should ever have to bury a father, especially under these circumstances,” New York City public sdvocate Letitia James told the congregation. “Akai did not leave us, Akai was taken from us … Akai was struck by a bullet that should have never met him.”

On Saturday Gurley will be buried in New Jersey. The search for answers will continue.

The Guardian
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Offline Roger

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Re: Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges
« Reply #119 on: December 06, 2014, 06:11:14 PM »
Hi Johnnie and you've obviously feel strongly.
I'd just add that sometimes the Police themselves are under real provocation but even so, it is clear that the USA needs to wise up and calm the Police down - make some real changes.
I think the suggested cameras on caps would help moderate the attitude of the Police in action (even though there are so many phones around taking pictures these days).
The incident that caught my eye was the death of Eric Garner, where guns were not involved at all. He was a really big fella but seemed to be standing quietly with his hands in the air when he was suddenly wrestled to the ground with a neck hold that was continued on the ground despite protestation. It appeared a totally unnecessary, OTT and indisciplined response by the Police.
 

 



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