Author Topic: Julian Assange & Wikileaks  (Read 7425 times)

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Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2010, 09:34:16 PM »
Do you see any Americans protesting about Assange being jailed?...and last time I checked demonstrations aka riots are being scheduled by people (mostly kids) from these pis.s a.ss countries who feel they are entitled to our military secrets.  Is it because America is labled as the world police? You're German right?  We can talk about what your fuerer tried to accomplish if you want to....or how about what the Brits tried to do for centuries??? Trying to colonize anything and everything. Howcome  no one ever talks about that?...only the Americans?  Why all this protest against America?  Some of you sure enjoy living and working in my country dont you?  For the brits reading this.. No i do not dislike people from the UK. I'm only stating the past as reference...so please do not take what I've stated in the wrong way.

capitalization "corrected" by admin.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2010, 09:50:56 PM »
I would say you're paranoid! I for example would never defend a guy like Hitler and his system, who sent my father's first wife and my elder (half-) brother's mother to a concentration camp. There were offenders and victims! Two completely different roles. Putting victims in one bag with the offenders and declare them all bad guys is...  :o

It's the same in the US: there are a lot of good people and a few bad people. Why do you feel addressed when people are talking about bad people or wrong political moves there? You don't have to like everybody or even defend their actions just because they share the nationality with you!

I heard about lots of Americans not approving Visa's, Mastercard's, Paypal's etc. reaction either. But your example that nobody would openly show sympathy in the US for Julian Assange and Wikileaks could be taken as one for the US being a repressive system. "Does nobody dare?" :-[

And may I ask you to adjust your vocabulary to a higher level? Or do I have to put more words in the swear word filter? People might get a wrong impression of this forum by the vocabulary applied in your rants.
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2010, 09:32:37 AM »
Well, BF, I suggest you read some US papers like the Washington Post and the New York Times to correct the picture in your mind. Ever heard of Khaled al Masri? Read The Washington Post to find out how the CIA embarrassed itself by kidnapping the wrong person. And read Wikileaks to find out how the US government tried to apply political pressure upon the German government to keep them from asking to extradite those 13 clearly identified kidnappers from the CIA. Sure that's a "military secret"!

WikiLeaks: US pressured Germany after CIA abduction mistake


US said arrest warrants would harm the bilateral relationship

Leaked documents showed that Washington put intense pressure on Berlin not to arrest CIA agents involved in the 2003 abduction of a German citizen mistakenly believed to be a terrorist.
 
The latest documents released by WikiLeaks show the US pressured Germany to prevent the arrest of CIA agents involved in the abduction of a German citizen who alleges he was mistaken for a terrorist and tortured by US intelligence officials.

Khaled el-Masri, a German citizen of Lebanese origin, was captured in 2003 as he traveled to Macedonia on vacation, where he was mistaken for an al Qaeda operative and turned over to the CIA.

Masri said he was held and tortured in a secret US prison in Afghanistan before US agents realized their mistake and released him five months later.

Diplomat warned of damage to bilateral relations

US diplomat John Koenig, of the American embassy in Berlin, reportedly told the German government to "weigh carefully at every step of the way the implications for relations with the US" should Berlin act on the arrest warrants for the 13 suspected agents of the Central Intelligence Agency, according to the New York Times late Wednesday.

Koenig stressed to German Deputy National Security Advisor Rolf Nikel the potential negative implications for bilateral relations between Germany and the US, in particular counter-terrorism cooperation, if steps were taken to "seek the arrest or extradition of US citizens/officials," the documents said.

Thirteen operatives, believed to be CIA, were eventually charged in indictments in Munich and Spain, as investigators concluded that the plane that transported Masri passed through Spanish territory.

Deutsche Welle

(Deutsche Welle is the official German international TV and radio service, a government voice)

So what do we learn from that, BF? That the US government cannot even live up to their own Secret Service's actions committed  on foreign soil, compensate victims of illegal government actions, and even protects criminals (those 13 CIA operatives) from getting prosecuted for their crimes by applying diplomatic pressure, sheltering and assisting suspects of a crime punishable with capital punishment in the US! That's why those "secrets" need to get revealed, so the American people do know what their representatives are doing and kick them back on the right path!!!

How do you feel about your above posts now, BF? :-[
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2010, 02:48:55 PM »
JF, you crack me up...Afraid and Paranoid?  You mean like the time the kid came to your house with the police and you gave in so easily signing an agreement at the police station?  Then you write "Capitalization corrected by Admin."  Can I have admin access so I can do the same to your posts, or are you bent on being in CONTROL and afraid?  If you are all for freedom of speech then remove the filter. 

You sure enjoyed working and living in my country with a beach front office didn't you?

You mention ONE frivolous incident of a Lebanese being tortured??  Can we talk about the innocent Americans captured tortured and executed?  No, because you are two faced and only focused on Americans being the bad guys, like your stupid little picture you posted.  You make me laugh.  Guess who who perfected torture to science?  I'll give you a hint.  In response to the picture you posted....And to be honest with you, I'm not interested in what you say about your parents because I don't believe you...this is the internet and you can say anything you want...  I do not wish to discuss this topic with you any further as you are clearly out of your element and haven't a clue about America other than what you read on the internet...sad, considering you lived and enjoyed working there...And yes, I do read those newspapers..Maybe you should learn to infer what you read.  You can continue your little Nazi  internet forum mind games with someone else.  Maybe, you should debate with Saf about how 911 was all a conspiracy....it's as exciting as watching grass grow.....or we could talk about the picture below and what your country did to the Jews...or how about Stalin?  Ever watch the History channel or NGC?  You should because you might learn something about the history of YOUR country.



 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2010, 03:34:20 PM »
Do you know why I don't answer to your post refuting your "arguments"? Because I assume everybody can see himself that you have sufficiently proven your own shortcomings.

And I don't need to post any pictures of what was done by your country's politicians before you were born or when you were still a child, because you can look into a history book and read for yourself what some people not even related to you did  before you were born and that therefore you must be guilty of. Should I feel sorry that I was born ten years after the Nazi-horror was finished already and therefore couldn't be the hero to stop it?  :-[

Quote
...you gave in so easily signing an agreement at the police station?


You talk like you knew what that agreement contained and that it would have changed this board. Guess you didn't understand at all  what I said in the post where I reported about that visit.  ;D

Swear words are not allowed on any decent board. If you don't argue but only abuse this board for invectives I have to interfere.

The swear word filter only filters letter sequences. It does not block or change news reported or views expressed, what is freedom of speech. Just use your language on an American web board or in public in the US - and wait for the cops to incarcerate you! ;)

And no, definitely I cannot give you admin or mod permissions. Because I am responsible for this board. But you can open a board of your own easily. Just google "free forum" and select. :)

And now take a handful of Aspirin to relieve your headache! ;)

P.S. As history book to read I recommend "The Free and the Unfree: A Progressive History of the United States" by Peter N. Carroll and David W. Noble


Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2010, 09:22:50 AM »
Do you see any Americans protesting about Assange being jailed?


Bad luck, BF! News are that nobody less than Michael Moore (Fahrenheit 9/11) himself offered to pay $20,000 for Julian Assange's bail and offered his internet media to keep Wikileaks running. Now don't say "Michael Moore Hates America", for sure he does love America: "There are too many good things worth saving to let the whole thing go down the drain!" (John Kay/Steppenwolf) 


Michael Moore 66ème Festival de Venise (2009)

Why I'm Posting Bail Money for Julian Assange
 
by Michael Moore

Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 04:12:19 AM PST

Yesterday, in the Westminster Magistrates Court in London, the lawyers for WikiLeaks co-founder Julian Assange presented to the judge a document from me stating that I have put up $20,000 of my own money to help bail Mr. Assange out of jail.

Furthermore, I am publicly offering the assistance of my website, my servers, my domain names and anything else I can do to keep WikiLeaks alive and thriving as it continues its work to expose the crimes that were concocted in secret and carried out in our name and with our tax dollars.

We were taken to war in Iraq on a lie. Hundreds of thousands are now dead. Just imagine if the men who planned this war crime back in 2002 had had a WikiLeaks to deal with. They might not have been able to pull it off. The only reason they thought they could get away with it was because they had a guaranteed cloak of secrecy. That guarantee has now been ripped from them, and I hope they are never able to operate in secret again.

So why is WikiLeaks, after performing such an important public service, under such vicious attack? Because they have outed and embarrassed those who have covered up the truth. The assault on them has been over the top.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/12/14/928855/-Why-Im-Posting-Bail-Money-for-Julian-Assange
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dirtydog

  • Guest
Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2010, 02:52:17 AM »
Iraq was just a fiasco, who cares how many Saddam killed, the Americans are beating him on that score, billions of dollars of tax payers money down the drain, and no real benefits to anybody.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2010, 08:39:44 AM »
no real benefits to anybody.

Don't forget the "war -"...eh 'defense industry'. If you don't find a way to use your weapons the tax payers will object to buying more and more new ones. And millions of jobs are in danger, some rich can't get richer anymore and so on. The economy will stagnate and finally you'll have a recession. :-[
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

sicho

  • Guest
Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2010, 09:39:44 AM »
It's clear that you can have a recession even if the economy is stimulated by the war industry so that's no excuse for the blood sacrifice.

If there is a recession, it might help the general economy more if the troops were withdrawn and employed on capital and raw materials projects at home. Putting them to work on such things as bridge and road construction and mining would generate jobs for others and trade at no extra cost to the taxpayer. But that's not the point, is it? The possibility of job losses in Halliburton are aren't important. It's the profits for the owners that would be at risk that influences the decisions of politicians.

Back in the 1970's, the unions and Lucas Aerospace in the UK produced a business plan that would have radically changed the company's output. Concerned about the morals of making machines that had no other purpose but to kill people, the workers looked at other ways to use their skills within the company. The current buzz phrase is 'thinking outside the box'. The plan was not even considered. The reason was that the union made the mistake of considering the retention of skilled jobs rather than maximising shareholder profits. There's nothing wrong with maximising profit unless you happen to be looking at the business end of a gun that earned those profits.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2010, 04:46:56 PM »
Armed forces are very hi-tech and specialized today. How could for example the commander of a tank successfully operate a caterpillar on road construction? Wouldn't he refuse comparatively simple work like that with the argument being overqualified?
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sicho

  • Guest
Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2010, 05:29:07 PM »
Armed forces are very hi-tech and specialized today. How could for example the commander of a tank successfully operate a caterpillar on road construction? Wouldn't he refuse comparatively simple work like that with the argument being overqualified?

Up to him but many retired officers take management jobs. The squaddies have useful manual and clerical skills. Many armed forces personnel seek to learn a trade or profession that they can use after they retire so than can take useful civilian jobs at any earlier age. Some officers already think that they are politicians .......
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2010, 10:01:02 PM »
Julian Assange granted bail at high court

WikiLeaks founder is wanted in Sweden for questioning over allegations of rape

Britain's high court today decided to grant bail to Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder who is wanted in Sweden for questioning over allegations of rape.

Justice Duncan Ouseley agreed with a decision by the City of Westminister earlier in the week to release Assange on strict conditions: £200,000 cash deposit, with a further £40,000 guaranteed in two sureties of £20,000 and strict conditions on his movement.

Assange stood in a dark grey suit in the courtroom dock as Ouseley began hearing an appeal by British prosecutors acting on behalf of Sweden.

There was an early sign that the day would go in Assange's favour when Ouseley said: "The history of the way it [the case] has been dealt with by the Swedish prosecutors would give Mr Assange some basis that he might be acquitted following a trial."

The 39-year-old Australian arrived at the high court in a white prison van. Photographers swarmed around the vehicle in an attempt to get a picture. Amid intense media interest, a queue of journalists had formed as early as 6am.

Mark Stephens, one of Assange's lawyers, said before the proceedings that the bail money had been raised from Assange's supporters and "appears to be in the banking system". Stephens again complained about the conditions in which Assange had been held, describing them as Victorian.

Assange has been held in solitary confinement, released from his cell for only one hour a day, and his mail has been heavily censored, according to his supporters.

Today's hearing followed a decision by senior district judge Howard Riddle to grant Assange bail, but he remained in Wandsworth prison, where he has been held for a week, as prosecutors gave notice they would appeal.

Assange is fighting attempts to extradite him to Sweden for questioning over allegations of sexual misconduct including rape made by two female WikiLeaks volunteers, which he denies.

"It's an ongoing investigation in Sweden and the prosecutor needs to interrogate him to make a decision on the matter," said Karin Rosander, a spokeswoman for the Swedish prosecution agency.

Bail conditions set by Riddle stipulate that Assange must stay at a country house in Suffolk owned by Vaughan Smith, the founder of the Frontline club in west London, report to police daily and wear an electronic tag.

Meanwhile, it emerged that the decision to have Assange sent to a London jail and kept there was taken by the British authorities and not by prosecutors in Sweden.

It had been widely supposed that Sweden had taken the decision to oppose bail, with the Crown Prosecution Service acting merely as its representative. But the Swedish prosecutor's office told the Guardian it had "not got a view at all on bail" and that Britain had made the decision to oppose bail.

Karin Rosander, director of communications for Sweden's prosecutor's office, said: "The decision was made by the British prosecutor. I got it confirmed by the CPS this morning that the decision to appeal the granting of bail was entirely a matter for the CPS. The Swedish prosecutors are not entitled to make decisions within Britain. It is entirely up to the British authorities to handle it."

As a result, she said, Sweden would not submit any new evidence or arguments to the high court hearing. "The Swedish authorities are not involved in these proceedings. We have not got a view at all on bail."

After the Swedish statement was put to the CPS, it confirmed that all decisions concerning the opposing of bail being granted to Assange had been taken by its lawyers. "In all extradition cases, decisions on bail issues are always taken by the domestic prosecuting authority," it said. "It would not be practical for prosecutors in a foreign jurisdiction … to make such decisions."

Assange and his lawyers have expressed fears of a looming legal battle in the US, where prosecutors may be preparing to indict him for espionage over WikiLeaks' publication of the documents.

The New York Times reported that federal prosecutors were looking for evidence that Assange had conspired with a former US army intelligence analyst suspected of leaking classified documents.

Among the material prosecutors are studying is an online chat log in which Private Bradley Manning is said to claim that while he was downloading government files he was directly communicating with Assange using an encrypted internet conferencing service, according to the Times. Manning is also said to have claimed that Assange gave him access to a dedicated server for uploading some of them to WikiLeaks.

The Guardian
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2010, 05:05:04 PM »
Bradley Manning's Detention: UN Probing Whether Case Counts As Torture

NEW YORK -- The United Nations is probing a complaint that Bradley Manning, the detained Army private suspected of giving classified documents to WikiLeaks has been mistreated in custody. And WikiLeaks chief Julian Assange called Manning "a political prisoner" during an interview on MSNBC.

As The Huffington Post reported last week, Manning's supporters went public with their concerns about the harsh conditions of his imprisonment aboard a floating brig in Quantico, Va. -- he has no access to exercise or even a pillow and bedsheets during his 23 hours of solitary confinement a day -- after their complaints to the military over several months went unheeded.

According to the Associated Press, the U.N. office for torture issues in Geneva said it received a complaint from one of Manning's supporters alleging conditions at the brig amount to torture. A spokesman for the Marines denied mistreating Manning, telling the AP he is being kept safe, secure and ready for trial.

Assange told MSNBC that he doesn't know if Manning is the whistleblower (due to the blinders of the software used by WikiLeaks), but he's a "political prisoner" in the U.S., adding that claims he conspired with Manning are "absolute nonsense."

Recently, Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, posted a blog detailing the conditions of Manning's detention. Though he is allowed to read books and watch television for a few hours a day, the ban on exercise in his cell is strictly enforced. "If he attempts to do push-ups, sit-ups, or any other form of exercise he will be forced to stop," wrote Coombs.

The lawyer also expressed frustration with the harsh conditions, describing multiple attempts to improve them and indicating that he is prepared to file a motion under Article 13 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which bans illegal pretrial punishment.

The Huffington Post
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sicho

  • Guest
Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2010, 09:25:43 PM »
Assange also claimed that, in Britain, he was kept in solitary confinement and denied sufficient access to visitors.
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2010, 10:15:40 PM »
Interesting..I didn't know the U.S allows these no name supporters of Manning to visit and inspect prisoners who are in solitary confinement...Since when did this policy go into effect?  This twit who made the complaint...what's his name?  Where did he get his info?  Was he there?  Did he witness any of torture or anything? 

The reason Manning is in solitary confinement is for his own protection.  Americans take espionage very seriously and I am certain there is a fair amount of yanks who would love to get their hands on this traitor.  He is also under a suicide watch....but I'm sure he won't have to worry about that once he gets out of prison (if ever)..but that won't be before "Tyrone" tosses his salad and tears him a new one..either way this guy is marked for the rest of his natural life.

Off topic.. Michael Moore???  Sorry but he does NOT represent the majority of Americans....The same guy who actually believes 911 was all some conspiracy along with the rest of the nut cases around here...who by coincidence all happen to be Bush haters..Michael Moore is a fanatic, he has a VERY SMALL following and as I stated, does not represent the majority of Americans.  Why not go and talk to some Americans and ask how they feel about this ordeal instead of quoting the very small minority groups.  Manning and Assange have put America at risk, that's a FACT.

Abusive capitalization corrected and quotation of whole preceding article removed by admin
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2010, 10:50:00 AM »
Abusive capitalization corrected and quotation of whole preceding article removed by admin

Will you ever learn it, BF?  :-[

Michael Moore???  Sorry but he does NOT represent the majority of Americans.... Manning and Assange have put America at risk, that's a FACT.

You asked: "Do you see any Americans protesting about Assange being jailed?" That was answered correctly. Michael Moore is just one who dares to speak up. There are others as well.

And fact is: George W. Bush has put the whole world at risk with his invasion of Iraq disguised as "war on terror" and the fairy tale of the weapons of mass destruction, allegedly "representing" (???) the majority of Americans. That's why the majority has changed its vote drastically at the last presidential election. How do you know what the majority of Americans really thinks of Wikileaks and the behavior of their own diplomats? They might tell next time at the ballots again when their anonymity is guaranteed...

Julian Assange is capable of seeing more than just America. And the documents published by WikiLeaks don't deal with America's internal problems at all, but rather with its diplomats' relationships to the rest of the world. People from countries those documents deal with have a right to be upset about the contents of those. Why do you personally mind those documents other than the plain truth having been revealed? ;) 
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2010, 11:19:34 PM »
So you think Sadam Hussein was a righteous man and deserved to continue to run the country they way he saw fit? You say an invasion of Iraq disguised as a war on terror?  How is that?   Did you not see the planes crashing into the world trade center?  How do you think America is going to respond?  What did the world expect, America to take a leisure attitude, kick back and do nothing about it?  At least Bush had the balls to go after these terrorist, WOMD or not Satan the second is long gone now.

Americans changed their vote?  This half black president was carefully picked and put into place.  Most people had no idea who he was!!  Many Americans are scratching their heads now saying to themselves, "How'd this guy get into office?"  Why not take a look at the recent polls.  Obama's approval rating has dropped significantly and I doubt he'll get re-elected.  He's done more damage to America than any other president..and NO it's not Bush's mess that he had to clean up.  What a poor excuse....look here:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/155518.html

And yes I do mind those documents as do most Americans because they are putting America, people, AND other countries at risk, something that Assange and his band of renegade followers don't seem to understand.  What part of that is it that you don't understand?..or are you a Wikileaks supporter too?  Are you?

US President Barack Obama's popularity has dropped by three percentage points in the past two weeks, now standing at 39 percent, according to results of a new poll.


A Zogby Interactive poll released on Tuesday indicates that Obama's approval rating equals a low since he took office at 39 percent, while 63 percent of respondents think the US president is a weak leader compared to only 19 percent who regard him as a strong leader.

The latest poll comes after Obama agreed earlier in December to keep all of the Bush-era tax cuts for another two years in a bid to resolve differences with Republicans in Congress.

"It was a bad week for Obama's relationship with his party's base, which sees him giving in too easily to the Republicans," John Zogby said in a statement.

According to the poll, 68 percent of those surveyed also believe that America is heading in the wrong direction.

The figures come as there are widespread assumptions that a string of government failures, including the failure to rein in the economic crisis in the US, the prolonged wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the high unemployment rate in the country have largely contributed to the slippage in Obama's popularity rate.

Against a backdrop of the worst recession since the Great Depression, which has driven many Americans out of workplace, the latest figures published recently by the US Federal Reserve show that unemployment rate will remain at around 9.5 percent this year and 8.9 percent in 2011.

Obama's healthcare reforms have also struck a snag as a federal court has ruled that a key part of the new bill is unconstitutional.

Obama's average approval rating has declined in each quarter since he took office last year, and since his Democratic party took a pounding in mid-term elections in November, he has faced an uphill struggle to press ahead with his proposed legislations in the Congress.




Go take a look at the poll on Foxnews...
 

Jazz

  • Guest
Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #47 on: December 25, 2010, 12:31:32 AM »
I'm a Wikileaks supporter. I admire his balls. I'm not a fan of Obama but I didn't like Bush either. Iraq had nothing to do with the planes crashing into the world trade center.

 

dirtydog

  • Guest
Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2010, 12:51:38 AM »
Quote
Did you not see the planes crashing into the world trade center?  How do you think America is going to respond?
The planes piloted by Saudi nationals that crashed into the New York WTC? Yep I saw them on tv, it seems logical to me that if Saudi Arabia (Who has a tonne of oil) attacks American then America should retaliate by attacking, ermm, Iraq. They got weapons of mass destruction, honest Guv.
 

Mitraparp Monkey

  • Guest
Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2010, 08:32:42 AM »
This half black president...

Oops, do I hear racism? Not everybody can be as American already as being 1/8 Hawaiian, 1/4 American Indian, and the rest mixed, German, English, etc.  :-[ :-[ :-[
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #50 on: December 25, 2010, 09:22:44 AM »
Ok, BF, let's have a look at the contents of the revealed documents again to find out about that danger Julian Assange has brought over America;

In a September 2009 cable, U.S. Ambassador Philip Murphy described German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle -- also the leader of the Free Democrats (FDP), the junior party in the ruling coalition -- as "arrogant," "fixated on maintaining his 'cult of personality'" and "skeptical about the U.S. and its foreign policy objectives."

Chancellor Angela Merkel was dubbed "risk averse and rarely creative" in another dispatch sent earlier that year by John Koenig, the U.S. charge d'affaires in Berlin. (AOLnews)

No secrecy needed for those observations: they're shared by many Germans. Westerwelle's party for example fell from an all-time high of 16 % at the last elections to a mere 3% in the polls now. And Merkel isn't the most popular German politician either. She is only on place 3 now according to the last ZDF poll.

But the pressure upon the German government not to ask for the extradition of those CIA abductors is a big thing in my opinion. Unfortunately most of the press keeps fairly shut about that. Wasn't Afghanistan invaded because it is harboring terrorists? Can it be concluded now that not only the US is harboring kidnappers but even employing them as such with tax payers' money? So America might have lost a little face but definitely isn't "at risk" due to these findings. Just the international pressure coming from those revealed truths should help its government to be a little more sensitive and careful. Wikileaks didn't put America at risk but helped to get it back on the path of proper governance. :)

They can prove proper governance now by the way they proceed with Julian Assange and Bradley Manning.  ;)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #51 on: December 25, 2010, 10:12:34 AM »
From the NY Times:

"The White House said the release of what it called “stolen cables” to several publications was a “reckless and dangerous action” and warned that some cables, if released in full, could disrupt American operations abroad and put the work and even lives of confidential sources of American diplomats at risk. The statement noted that reports often include “candid and often incomplete information” whose disclosure could “deeply impact not only U.S. foreign policy interests, but those of our allies and friends around the world.”

From the U.S Attorney general Eric Holder:

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder says the release of thousands of classified U.S. documents and cables by the WikiLeaks organization has put Americans at risk.  But Holder would not say what steps he has taken to deal with the leaks.

At a Washington news conference, Attorney General Holder said he condemned in the strongest terms the ongoing leaks of documents by WikiLeaks and said an active criminal investigation remains underway.

"The national security of the United States has been put at risk," said Holder.  "The lives of people who work for the American people have been put at risk.  The American people themselves have been put at risk by these actions that I believe are arrogant, misguided and ultimately not helpful in any way."


http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Holder-Says-WikiLeaks-Puts-Americans-At-Risk-111395764.html

CBS News, From President Obama:

"In his first public comments on the matter, Mr. Obama said the disclosure of classified information from the battlefield "could potentially jeopardize individuals or operations."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/27/politics/main6718218.shtml

New York Post, Obama Administration:

"The Obama administration has told whistleblower WikiLeaks that its expected imminent release of classified State Department cables will put "countless" lives at risk, threaten global counterterrorism operations and jeopardize U.S. relations with its allies."

Here, read this:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/hillary_clinton_contacts_foreign_DAXGiRJhuMApMiOwuLDkhKJl

America, other countries, and people at risk...plain and simple.  You still haven't answered my question.  Do you support Assanage?  Helping America?  LOL  He's not even an American citizen...I guess he's doing all of this out of the goodness of his heart to help a country that he isn't even a citizen of.  God Bless his kind soul.

Some other good reading for you:

http://www.cnewsworld.com/world-news/wikileaks-release-puts-lives-at-risk-mullen/

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/wikileaks-founder-has-put-american-interests-at-risk/136916-2.html

No offense, but the truth is staring at you in the face and you just refuse to accept it.



 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2010, 10:47:43 AM »
No offense, but the truth is staring at you in the face and you just refuse to accept it.

Didn't know you changed your personality, your name, to "the truth" now!  ;D

I prefer to use my own brain for my opinion instead of quoting other people, so-called "authorities", even quoting them in bold letters, blindly accepting their thoughts as the truth and ignoring the fact that very often their position demands statements from them they don't believe in themselves. :-[.

You still haven't answered my question.  Do you support Assanage?

to support =  to give aid or encouragement to a person or cause. (The Free Dictionary)

I think I stated my position answering your question many times already! I haven't sent him a check yet! But maybe you can still convince me to do so!  ;)

Since Julian Assange or another member of the Wikileaks group didn't consult me before their publication I wasn't in the position to give encouragement to their action, either. It happened before me getting informed about it. So what do you want to find out by asking me repeatedly? You seem to want an answer that fits your way of thinking. A simplicistic  "yes" or "no". I don't see things as simple as that! I prefer clear statements that cannot be twisted against me. :-[
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2010, 12:02:04 PM »
BF, have you ever heard that great song "Monster" by the American band Steppenwolf, made over 40 years ago? It's as valid as ever:

Once the religious, the hunted and weary
Chasing the promise of freedom and hope
Came to this country to build a new vision
Far from the reaches of kingdom and pope
Like good Christians, some would burn the witches
Later some got slaves to gather riches

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

And once the ties with the crown had been broken
Westward in saddle and wagon it went
And 'til the railroad linked ocean to ocean
Many the lives which had come to an end
While we bullied, stole and bought our a homeland
We began the slaughter of the red man

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

The blue and grey they stomped it
They kicked it just like a dog
And when the war over
They stuffed it just like a hog

And though the past has it's share of injustice
Kind was the spirit in many a way
But it's protectors and friends have been sleeping
Now it's a monster and will not obey

(Suicide)
The spirit was freedom and justice
And it's keepers seem generous and kind
It's leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
'Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
And now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'

Our cities have turned into jungles
And corruption is stranglin' the land
The police force is watching the people
And the people just can't understand
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watching

(America)
America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2010, 09:52:12 AM »

I prefer to use my own brain for my opinion instead of quoting other people, so-called "authorities", even quoting them in bold letters, blindly accepting their thoughts as the truth and ignoring the fact that very often their position demands statements from them they don't believe in themselves. :-[.

Have you lost your mind?  This is EXACTLY what the majority of your board consists of, quoting everything and anything from the media.  It makes up the majority of the posts on this forum!  You quote the press and authorities constantly when it suits your needs to strengthen your weak arguments, like the post about the Lebanese guy being arrested, tortured, blah blah blah.  This is exactly what this forum specializes in.

Quote
to support =  to give aid or encouragement to a person or cause. (The Free Dictionary)

I think I stated my position answering your question many times already! I haven't sent him a check yet! But maybe you can still convince me to do so!  ;)


Why would you need me to convince you?  Aren't you able to think for yourself?  After all didn't you just say, you use your own brain to form opinions etc.?....Shouldn't be any different in this case now should it?

Quote
Since Julian Assange or another member of the Wikileaks group didn't consult me before their publication I wasn't in the position to give encouragement to their action, either. It happened before me getting informed about it. So what do you want to find out by asking me repeatedly? You seem to want an answer that fits your way of thinking. A simplicistic  "yes" or "no". I don't see things as simple as that! I prefer clear statements that cannot be twisted against me. :-[

Of course, but it's ok for you to twist peoples' opinions and statements made by users here...like your comment about "Do I hear racism?"  Have the voices returned to haunt you again JF?  I mean really, if I had said half white president would you have made the same comment?  I doubt it.  Again, an example of how you like to twist things.  There's nothing wrong with what I said so get over it and stop trying to create an alternate debate here.  Oh, and thank you for reminding me and the rest of the Korat community about my ethnic background, because I CAN say I AM a native American Indian.  Our people didn't torture and kill 5 million Jews, perform sick experiments on them, then put them in an oven on high to bake...or shower them with Zyklon B gas like your country did.  You must be really proud of your country huh?  Why not contact John Kay and ask him to write a song about that?  You are in NO position to be talking about racism, JF.

In regards to the Bold type font...it's to stress a point...Like when you use the RED font to stress your point...again another example of how it's ok for you to do it, but not me.  If I write something like Assange, you quickly edit my post and put a notation to make sure everyone on the forum knows that you changed my original post.  Who's censoring stuff now?  Who's the control freak now?  Isn't this the very thing you complain about, yet you seem to practice it on a daily basis here on your forum in a manner which is clearly intended to try and belittle people and make them look bad.  I'm surprised you haven't changed my bold type font to normal yet....

Finally, I sincerely hope there's more to this debate than quoting some lyrics from a has-been hippie Canadian band.  May I suggest you download or buy the TV series, "America, the story of the U.S."  You just might learn something.  I'll give you copy of the series if you want.  ;)

The quote in which letter sequences had been misquoted in abusive capitalization has been corrected by admin.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2010, 10:21:39 AM »
Have you lost your mind?

No, I have not lost my mind!  :) Sorry for taking the liberty to keep using it.  :-[

Quote
You quote the press and authorities constantly when it suits your needs to strengthen your weak arguments, like the post about the Lebanese guy being arrested, tortured, blah blah blah.

Ever heard of a difference between information given and opinion, or better position, expressed? Of course I could only tell the information I gained from reading a specific newspaper article or watching a news channel etc. in my own words. But somebody might ask me where I got that information from since it is unlikely that I could have gathered it myself not having been a personal witness. Isn't it better to quote that source of information at the beginning? When the so-called "authorities" deliver an in the interest of the lobby or even pressure groups carefully worked-out "opinion" of their advisors, i. e. the position of their agency or department etc., to the public they don't give information but declare positions, not even state opinions. Positions can be wrong and an opinion can or cannot be shared. Information can be fully true, partly true or not true at all.

Quote
...but it's ok for you to twist peoples' opinions and statements made by users here...like your comment about "Do I hear racism?"  Have the voices returned to haunt you again JF?  I mean really, if I had said half white president would you have made the same comment?  I doubt it.  Again, an example of how you like to twist things.  There's nothing wrong with what I said so get over it and stop trying to create an alternate debate here.  Oh, and thank you for reminding me and the rest of the Korat community about my ethnic background, because I CAN say I AM a native American Indian.  Our people didn't torture and kill 5 million Jews, perform sick experiments on them, then put them in an oven on high to bake...or shower them with Zyklon B gas like your country did.  You must be really proud of your country huh?  Why not contact John Kay and ask him to write a song about that?  You are in NO position to be talking about racism, JF.

Sorry, BF: that's in my eyes just another unqualified statement, only proving your own shortcomings. No need to discuss it (again)! I just wonder how you freed yourself of that German ethnicity of yours and your own "share" of the "collective guilt" of Germans you keep bringing up here. :-[

Quote
The quote in which letter sequences had been misquoted in abusive capitalization has been corrected by admin.

..and may I ask you to play along the rules and not alter quotes of other people's posts?  ;)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2010, 05:08:59 PM »
Julian Assange's autobiography to earn him at least $1.5 million

WIKILEAKS chief Julian Assange has said in an interview he signed deals for his autobiography worth more than one million pounds ($1.57 million).

Assange told Britain's Sunday Times newspaper that the money would help him defend himself against allegations of sexual assault made by two women in Sweden.

"I don't want to write this book, but I have to," he said.

"I have already spent 200,000 pounds for legal costs and I need to defend myself and to keep WikiLeaks afloat."

The Australian said he would receive the equivalent of $800,000 from Alfred A. Knopf, his American publisher, and a British deal with Canongate is worth about $500,000.

Money from other markets and serialisation is expected to raise the total to 1.1 million pounds, he said.

The latest project of Assange's whistleblower website is the gradual release of tens of thousands of US diplomatic cables.

Since the latest project began Assange, who is on bail in Britain fighting a bid by Sweden to extradite him over the sex assault claims, has faced problems financing WikiLeaks.

Credit-card companies Visa and MasterCard and the internet payment firm PayPal have blocked donations to WikiLeaks, prompting Assange to label them "instruments of US foreign policy".

The Bank of America, the largest US bank, has also halted all transactions to WikiLeaks.

Washington has been infuriated by WikiLeaks as the site slowly releases the cache of about 250,000 secret US State Department cables. The US is believed to be considering how to indict Assange over the huge leak.

Assange has been staying at a friend's country mansion in eastern England since his release from jail on December 16 on strict bail conditions that include reporting to police daily and wearing an electronic tag.

A court in London is due to hold a full hearing on the Swedish extradition request starting February 7.

news.com.au

----------------------------------

I bet Alfred A. Knopf, his American publisher, willll have sold all copies even before the ink dried. A fixed salary of $800.000 is just a little share of what he'll make of a superseller  like that in America.  The modest salary shows that Julian Assange isn't greedy.

And all those bitching about Wikileaks and Assange really do help speeding up the run for a copy by the publicity they're creating. :-[
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2010, 08:15:37 AM »
...
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2010, 09:51:46 AM »
You know, BF, I expected that you couldn't just let it rest.  ;D

As you have learned above I'm a descendant of a victim of the Nazi-Horror. If you don't want to believe, it can be proven. Needless to say that you got to pay for all the expenses of that. Will ya?

Many Nazis went with new identities into hiding in other countries to avoid people in Germany recognizing and delivering them to the authorities for trial. It's also a known fact that America couldn't keep all of them out. Many went there and kept breeding. So what Germans' offspring are you? ...and where did you hang that picture? Living room, bedroom, toilet or the kids' room?
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: Julian Assange & Wikileaks
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2010, 06:17:34 AM »
I found a better one...check this out:

 

 



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