Stop at slandering, please!

[dereklev]

Original post and post in quotes here removed by admin due to very questionable accusations

Dr Twat

Those are very strong words regarding the proceeds of Koratmap.

I was indirectly involved in the Koratmap set up but will not go into detail. To the best of my knowledge the only other person involved was a local gentleman who rents cars and has various business interests around town. You didn’t hear about money being withheld from charities from me and the car renter would not have got involved if it would have cost him money!! So who is this chap you met?

Whoever you are Dr Twat, why not reveal your true identity if you are certain of your facts, you most certainly have your wires well and truly crossed as the money received from all the adverts on the map went towards the cost of producing the maps. All participants knew they were paying for an advertisement for their business. In fact the 3 companies owned by the organisers of the map paid for their advertisements too.

There never was any intention of donations being made to charity but I think Thailand Children’s Home did receive a gift of 3 or 4k Baht.

[Johnnie F.]

Thanks dereklev, the original post and your quote has been removed because after checking on it the accusation does appear obviously unsubstantiated to me. I therefore had to remove the post and your quotation of it.

Dr Trat:
Please don't slander on this forum. If an accusation appears highly questionable already at a superficial check you shouldn't post. Please don't make me work so hard and check up on everything you post.

Admin.

[Dr Twat]

KF, sorry about that. It won't happen again.

Derek I don't have to reveal anything.  That's the nice thing about using a nickname. Some people choose to use one, some not. For now you can refer to me as The Doctor or Doc.  I don't know you and you don't know me, and I'd like to keep it that way if you don't mind. I don't care about your map deal.  The info was given to me by several people. I won't talk about it anymore.

[dereklev]

KF, sorry about that. It won't happen again.

Derek I don't have to reveal anything.  That's the nice thing about using a nickname. Some people choose to use one, some not. For now you can refer to me as The Doctor or Doc.  I don't know you and you don't know me, and I'd like to keep it that way if you don't mind. I don't care about your map deal.  The info was given to me by several people. I won't talk about it anymore.

In your deleted post it was "I met this chap who was involved" and now it is several people

You should make up your mind don't you think.

It must be great to slander someone from behind a nick

[Dr Twat]

Excuse me derek, did I say he was the only person I talked to?  No I didn't.  I mentioned "this chap" because he had a lot of detailed information.

Please don't even go there with the slandering stuff.  You obviously are unaware of the slandering, deformation of character, threats, etc., that have been going on here by your little friend, not to mention the numerous nick names he used to impersonate people.  PLeeeeeeeeassee.

[Merlin]

Dereklev, I thought your observation "spot on" - amazing how stories change when placed under the microscope. I am yet to see credible evidence that "the boy" is anything but a seriously upset individual who is finally responding to a concerted and protracted campaign against him. If any of us are upset enough about a situation, we may well do and say things (especially after a few drinks) that we later regret.
All this hoohaa about what he may or may not have done takes no account of what has been done to him over recent months. Again I challenge those anonymous slanderers to go public with their "evidence" and take their own chances with Thailands slander laws.

[Johnnie F.]

That other people were slandering doesn't give me the right to spread it further when it must appear highly questionable to me.

That another person impersonates other people with the intention of slandering and posts dirty and offensive neither gives us the right to do as him. 

Our discussions are aimed at making him stop. By reproducing his behavior we would just give him reason to go on in his unacceptable way. 

[Mitraparp Monkey]

All this hoohaa about what he may or may not have done takes no account of what has been done to him over recent months. Again I challenge those anonymous slanderers to go public with their "evidence" and take their own chances with Thailands slander laws.

Sorry Merlin, but you are being counter-productive. This is a matter of the Korat expat community aiming just at not having to resort to the help of the Thai authorities. It is up to every individual whether he seeks help against the bad mouths of his fellow humans. Did the person who you think it is slandered about here ask for your help? I suggest to ask him first. Maybe he doesn't even want your interference. 

I agree with the admin that our contributions to the topic were primarily aiming at his email threats. He seems to have stopped. I doubt that it is in his interest that you keep the flame burning. 

By the way are you living permanently in Korat? 

[Johnnie F.]

Right Monkey, in cases of slander or perceived slander active legitimation is limited to the person himself who feels slandered.

[Merlin]

Sorry Merlin, but you are being counter-productive. This is a matter of the Korat expat community aiming just at not having to resort to the help of the Thai authorities. It is up to every individual whether he seeks help against the bad mouths of his fellow humans. Did the person who you think it is slandered about here ask for your help? I suggest to ask him first. Maybe he doesn't even want your interference. 


Monkey, this is a forum where people are invited to express their opinions. You and some of your anonymous friends seem to delight in doing that - did you need Mr Broussards permission to do that?. Your are quite right that he may not welcome my "interference", but I am merely doing what YOU are doing in expressing my opinions. You are NOT trying to sort this out without bothering the Thai authorities, you are all just having an anonymous and slanderous "witchhunt". There is an interesting post by Isaan Lawyers in KF today asking anyone with knowledge of his slanderers to come forward with information. Who knows, he may yet give you what you are denying him......your "day in court" 

[Johnnie F.]

Hi Merlin,

I'll be glad to assist the Thai authorities exposing and prosecuting the person who posted under half a dozen nicks (among them "Ajarn X") on this board using the Volico proxy server in the early hours of July 20. 

Sorry that I had to remove most of these posts because they were just too offensive under the law. You would agree that the person who posted that stuff should get prosecuted.

Monkey, this is a forum where people are invited to express their opinions. You and some of your anonymous friends seem to delight in doing that - did you need Mr Broussards permission to do that?.

Merlin, we avoid compromising people by using their names on this forum. So I did check whether some "Mr Broussard" might be compromised by your mention of that name. I could not find any reference on this board to a person of that name. So I did not remove or alter  your post due to not bearing any relevance. Could you please try not to compromise people on this board?

KF

[Mitraparp Monkey]

By the way are you living permanently in Korat? 

     

I take your non-answer as "No, I'm not living in Korat!"

We have seen from the history of Koratfarang, that the biggest trouble to our community has been caused by people not living in Korat but "playing intrigues" on the local forums.

Please be aware of the misdemeanor "breach of peace". If the intention behind a post appears as an attempt of "breach of peace" it should be removed.

Could you, Merlin, please stop your attempts of intimidation? As you seemingly are not part of a permanent Korat expat community they're not helpful in establishing peace and harmony here.

mm

[Love yourself]

Dereklev

Something i do not understand, would you care to explain the reasoning, that you and not the person we can't mention comes here to defend him.

A. Are you his defence lawyer
B. Is he a lover of yours
C. Do you feel sorry for him.
D. Do you believe his is innocent, of all the allegations, that we have read here and on other forums.
E. Have you asked him why he does not come to defend himself.

Look forward to your reply.

[Johnnie F.]

Just for those who did not follow the board fast enough to see what was posted by our member "sebby" himself and by him under various other nicks: I can send you quote samples of those posts as PMs. They're disgusting! But I need you to sign up on this board to use the PM system. Though we don't require email certification for your registration it should be a real email address that allows me to find out who you really are. This serves for your own protection. Wouldn't want to send you a sample which could hurt you badly. We don't want to make this bigger than it is.

[dereklev]

Dereklev

Something i do not understand, would you care to explain the reasoning, that you and not the person we can't mention comes here to defend him.

A. Are you his defence lawyer - Of course not
B. Is he a lover of yours - You obviously do not know me
C. Do you feel sorry for him. - Possibly
D. Do you believe his is innocent, of all the allegations, that we have read here and on other forums. - I do not know his innocence of all accusations and you do not know his guilt BUT I do know his innocence of the accusations made by Dr Twat that started this thread.
E. Have you asked him why he does not come to defend himself. - Yes I have but that is a private conversation. I believe that he defended himself on the other KF.

Look forward to your reply. - Now you have it.

[dereklev]

Just for those who did not follow the board fast enough to see what was posted by our member "sebby" himself and by him under various other nicks: I can send you quote samples of those posts as PMs. They're disgusting! But I need you to sign up on this board to use the PM system. Though we don't require email certification for your registration it should be a real email address that allows me to find out who you really are. This serves for your own protection. Wouldn't want to send you a sample which could hurt you badly. We don't want to make this bigger than it is.

Koratfart I would like to see the quote samples you mention. Thanks.

[Merlin]

Hi Merlin,

I'll be glad to assist the Thai authorities exposing and prosecuting the person who posted under half a dozen nicks (among them "Ajarn X") on this board using the Volico proxy server in the early hours of July 20. 

Sorry that I had to remove most of these posts because they were just too offensive under the law. You would agree that the person who posted that stuff should get prosecuted.


Hi Administrator,
I am not a personal friend of the subject of this thread, but someone who has had dealings with him and found him to be a reasonable person. If he (or anyone else) has broken the law, I would welcome any legal inquiry. From comments made to me, I believe that he has been the victim of a concerted campaign of vilification against him. If he is guilty of anything, he should be punished as should anyone who has offended against him. I just resent a lot of public and so far, unsubstantiated accusation against anyone that I have some respect for.
I mentioned the gentlemans name as any farang living in the area and using local fora would know who he is anyway. A little honesty would not go astray.

[Dr Twat]

Merlin, you don't get it do you?  Did you see what the kid posted on KF this morning at 4am?  The kid is obviously in dire need of therapeutic help.  He even posted the guy's name and information about employment.  Keep in mind now, that this kid is supposed to be a lawyer. IMO his reputation is damaged.  Would you trust a lawyer like that?  This is not normal behaviour.  Instead of keeping a low profile (because of his shady past) in Korat, he draws more attention to himself, first with the meaningless threats via email, then by posting on forums.  All of his actions can be traced, including the insults he made with reference to the Monarchy.  In his drunken state, he has injured himself and his reputation.  I don't see how he will ever recover.  Perhaps, it's time for him to pack up and find another camp where he can offer his "elite" services. 

[Johnnie F.]

Hi Administrator,
I am not a personal friend of the subject of this thread, but someone who has had dealings with him and found him to be a reasonable person. If he (or anyone else) has broken the law, I would welcome any legal inquiry. From comments made to me, I believe that he has been the victim of a concerted campaign of vilification against him. If he is guilty of anything, he should be punished as should anyone who has offended against him. I just resent a lot of public and so far, unsubstantiated accusation against anyone that I have some respect for.
I mentioned the gentlemans name as any farang living in the area and using local fora would know who he is anyway. A little honesty would not go astray.

Ok, at Merlin's request I have sent the following email

To: 'abuse@biznesshosting.com'
Subject: abuse via your IPs

Dear Sirs,

We had several legally and criminally relevant activities on our forum that bear your companies IP addresses. Our reverse IP is 66.40.52.76.

The relevant activities came from

208.88.120.84 on July 21, 2009, 18:28:29 UTC,

208.88.120.85 on July 19, 2009, 20:07:04 PM UTC, July 19, 2009, 23:08:13 UTC,

208.88.120.86 on July 20, 2009, 07:50:49 PM UTC,

208.88.120.87 on July 20, 2009, 18:41:56 UTC,

208.88.120.89 on July 20, 2009, 19:32:06 UTC, July 20, 2009, 19:39:45 UTC, July 20, 2009, 19:27:43 UTC,

208.88.120.90 on July 20, 2009, 19:18:15 UTC, July 20, 2009, 19:17:38 UTC, July 20, 2009, 19:15:24 UTC.


How can we obtain information about the real IP of the abuser?

With regards,

Admin of koratfart.com

At this point I urge the concerned person to maybe publish a public apology. I personally would feel sorry about doing more than is necessary to solve this unpleasant affair. We all have different opinions about how to handle our community. But as long as no real violence occurred I would regret to bother our host's authorities.

We'll see how things will develop. I think we could practice forgiveness for our own sake.

[Love yourself]

Dereklev

You mention in defended himself on the other KF, yes he did and all his posts were deleted, and have been for the last few days.

HM accused him of defamation of character, though he did not admit or deny anything, his only defence was to attack HM, with the same old mumbo jumbo.

Is That a defence??

[biglad]

It's as good as can be expected by a man subjected to a witchhunt

[Saf]

It's as good as can be expected by a man subjected to a witchhunt

There may be a person or two posting around the forums who is angry but there is no witchhunt. People are defending themselves against a barrage of unwarranted abusive and threatening emails, impersonations, lies, manipulation and harassment. Most of the allegations that he has made recently are actually things that he has been doing.

He has been told several times that, if he stops what he is doing, others will leave him alone. That's all that most people want. Decent people in the Korat community are no longer willing to put up with what he has been doing and what you are seeing is a reaction against it.

[Franklyb]

KF, sorry about that. It won't happen again.

Derek I don't have to reveal anything.  That's the nice thing about using a nickname. Some people choose to use one, some not. For now you can refer to me as The Doctor or Doc.  I don't know you and you don't know me, and I'd like to keep it that way if you don't mind. I don't care about your map deal.  The info was given to me by several people. I won't talk about it anymore.

In your deleted post it was "I met this chap who was involved" and now it is several people

You should make up your mind don't you think.

It must be great to slander someone from behind a nick

[/b][/color]

Now heres a man who slags off people for slandering behind a nick, i personally would prefer someone whos slandering me behind a nick, rather than behind my Back.

Now theres the kettle calling the Pot Black, or is it the pot calling the kettle black, whichever way its toothfaced

[dirtydog]

Internet defamation in Thailand is taken quite seriously now, regardless of whether the defamation is true or not, for arguements sake lets say JohnnyF is a Thai ladyboy who services farang customers, so Herman decides to book Johnnys services for the evening, this is when Herman finds out that Johnny isn't very good in bed and doesn't give blowjobs, next day Herman posts about his bad experience with Johnny on the internet, he only tells the truth, Johnny can now bring a case against Herman even though Herman only posted the truth, and, he will win it.

There is an interesting ongoing case at the moment between 2 farangs, so far one has been fined 100,000baht, the second case is now ongoing and he had to spend 2 days in jail before his bond was sorted out, you may have heard of the stickman saga and John Galt, here is the latest from that case. http://notstickmanbangkok.com/GaltWeekly.htm

[Johnnie F.]

That's just simply true in Korat as well;

Oh, and by the way, I have never had a complaint from a Thai.  Believe this or not.   NOT ONE Thai has ever complained about my opinion or criticisms.  But, when I put the spot light on foreigners, then I few of them have complained.  I make no excuses.  We foreigners should hold ourselves up to higher standards.  And part of holding people and society to greater standards requires that we are free to express ourselves with protest in an honest way.

Source

[Saf]

What about the posting on a public forum of emails and sms's from one individual to another?

[Johnnie F.]

The posting of anything always depends mainly upon the apparent intention why it was posted: to damage somebody or to warn people about a possible danger that may be coming from a person or business. But be careful, there's a very thin line and it may be up to the judge's mood how he sees it at the moment he has to decide about it. Not everything that is to a person's or business's disadvantage is defamation. But it certainly is not necessary to repeat rants over and over and argue they were just warnings meant for other people. 

[Saf]

But if a sender of an email copies it to other people and one of those people shows it to others, would it then be acceptable in law for the recipient of the email to publish it on a public forum?

[Franklyb]

Internet defamation in Thailand is taken quite seriously now, regardless of whether the defamation is true or not, for arguements sake lets say JohnnyF is a Thai ladyboy who services farang customers, so Herman decides to book Johnnys services for the evening, this is when Herman finds out that Johnny isn't very good in bed and doesn't give blowjobs, next day Herman posts about his bad experience with Johnny on the internet, he only tells the truth, Johnny can now bring a case against Herman even though Herman only posted the truth, and, he will win it.

There is an interesting ongoing case at the moment between 2 farangs, so far one has been fined 100,000baht, the second case is now ongoing and he had to spend 2 days in jail before his bond was sorted out, you may have heard of the stickman saga and John Galt, here is the latest from that case. http://notstickmanbangkok.com/GaltWeekly.htm

DD the korat sites are getting a bit like the Thai visa v teakdoor feud  few years ago would you not say

[Johnnie F.]

But if a sender of an email copies it to other people and one of those people shows it to others, would it then be acceptable in law for the recipient of the email to publish it on a public forum?

Generally I'd say no, because the sender did not intend to have those other people he gave notice of it to distribute that email of his origin any further. But as always there might be exceptions depending upon the content of that email and the intention of its author for giving notice to others. Defamation can also be committed by giving notice to third persons of an email you sent. It might be necessary to expose that defamation to limit the damage and warn the public of a possible danger.

And that something has already been made known to some other people in violation of the law doesn't give anybody the right to spread it any further.