Author Topic: You won't like it here  (Read 2163 times)

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Offline Johnnie F.

You won't like it here
« on: February 02, 2013, 09:23:25 AM »
Immigration: Romanian or Bulgarian? You won't like it here :lol :lol :lol

Please don't come to Britain – it rains and the jobs are scarce and low-paid. Ministers are considering launching a negative advertising campaign in Bulgaria and Romania to persuade potential immigrants to stay away from the UK.

The plan, which would focus on the downsides of British life, is one of a range of potential measures to stem immigration to Britain next year when curbs imposed on both country's citizens living and working in the UK will expire.

A report over the weekend quoted one minister saying that such a negative advert would "correct the impression that the streets here are paved with gold".

There was no word on how any advert might look or whether it would use the strategy of making Britain look as horrible as possible or try to encourage would-be migrants to wake up to the joys of their own countries whether Romania's Carpathian mountains or Bulgaria's Black Sea resorts. With governments around the world spending millions on hiring London-based consultants to undertake "reputation laundering" there would be a peculiar irony if Britain chose to trash its own image perhaps by highlighting winter flooding of homes or the carnage of a Saturday night A&E ward.

There are precedents. In 2007, Eurostar ran adverts in Belgium for its trains to London depicting a tattooed skinhead urinating into a china teacup. It remains unknown if any discussions have taken place over personalities who could carry off a similar exercise in anti-nation branding.

On Sunday a Downing Street source said: "It is true that options are being looked at but we are not commenting on the specific things mentioned ... as obviously it is an ongoing process and we will bring forward any proposals in due course."

The source also said that the government did not think the rule changes would necessarily bring a big influx of people, since Romanians have closer links to Germany and Italy rather than Britain.

Other reported options include making it tougher for EU migrants to access public services. Another is to deport those who move to Britain but do not find work within three months.

The Home Office has not produced an official estimate of how many of the 29 million Romanian and Bulgarian citizens will take advantage of their new freedoms when controls are lifted.

Campaign groups such as MigrationWatch have predicted that 250,000 will come from both countries over the next five years, although these figures are disputed. One Tory MP, Philip Hollobone, has claimed that Romanian and Bulgarian communities will treble to 425,000 within two years.

These figures have been questioned by experts, because they are based upon the numbers of Poles and Czechs who moved to Britain in in 2004. Then, only three countries opened their borders. This time, all of the 25 EU states will lift Labour market restrictions.

Buoyed by Cameron's offer of an in-out referendum, a growing number of Tory MPs now believe the UK should block the lifting of restrictions even if it were to prompt a row with the European commission.

The idea, however tentative, appears to clash with the billions of pounds Britain spent on the Olympics, partly to drive up the country's reputation. It also emerged as the Home Office launched a guide to Britishness for foreigners who would be citizens which opens with the words: "Britain is a fantastic place to live: a modern thriving society".

The Guardian
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Online Taman Tun

Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 09:27:17 AM »
Leave the EU now.  Problem solved.  A referendum some time after 2015 will be far too late.
We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out. Churchill
 

sicho

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 09:45:28 AM »
Uncontrolled migration of labour with welfare benefit rights thrown in is one of the daftest ideas ever dreamt up by the EU. Or is it a deliberate attempt to level the economies of the individual States and destroy their rich cultural differences? The UK has always been a target of the economy and culture wreckers in Europe. The UK, always the one stand firm while other give way to bullies, has to be the one they want to destroy first.

Back in the '50s, the UK advertised in the West Indies to entice dem folks to come to Eng-a-land where de streets were paved with weed and there were plenty of jobs on dem buses. It was a disaster because they flooded in and there was no racial discrimination legislation to protect them. It's all fixed now, though. You can discriminate only against dem white folks.

Negative advertising in all of those East European countries is a great idea - ahead of legislation to stop migration of jobless people once the EU charter is revised.
 

sicho

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 09:55:44 AM »
Leave the EU now.  Problem solved.  A referendum some time after 2015 will be far too late.


Cameron's offer is that, if the EU doesn't get its house in order by the time the UK has the next General Election, he will, if he wins, call for the in-or-out referendum.

I agree that it gives the shifty gits on the Continent far too much dithering time but it's a fair offer for him to make. In the meantime he and Farage can kick shit around the EU Parliament to wake them up.

UKIP Leader Nigel Farage first speech to new President Schultz Jan, 2012


UKIP Nigel Farage - Another hard pounding speech
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 11:51:58 AM »
I find the prospect of Britain waiving the advantages of EU-membership not the least bit scary! ;D

Just an example from personal experience:

I still own a small 54 sqm apartment near Frankfurt. In 2009 I rented that freshly renovated to a British guy operating a tree gardening firm around there. Rent was fairly cheap with €400/month; the comparative rent is about €450 - 500.The rent contract expressively limited occupancy to 2 persons. Last year the rent contract was ended: In spite of regular advance payments he left me with a water and heating bill of more than €1,300. Why so much? I found out then that he had crammed 6 - 8 of his Polish workers in there. To be able to rent that apartment to somebody else for living I had to pay for renovations in excess of the cleaning deposit of €1,200 (3 months rent max by law) which only covered a part of that. I am still in the process of taking him to court for the damages he caused to me by not minding what he had signed for.

He certainly helped improve my personal feelings towards the British EU-membership!  :-[
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sicho

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 12:13:10 PM »
I didn't think that you were the type to judge a whole nation by the actions of one person.

The UK still has a good relationship with its Commonwealth partners and I see that as the future. If the EU wants to continue free trade deals and a few other things that suit the UK, that's fine but certainly not essential.

I think that Cameron has awoken the sleeping giant in Europe, the masses who think that the present state of affairs is not what is needed. Perhaps, within the time scale that he has set, sufficient progress will have made towards getting the EU where it should be that no State would need to leave. Ideal for Britain would be a trading arrangement that also provided for the UK to revitalise its Commonwealth partnerships.

Nigel Farage destroys Barroso's State of the Union
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 12:52:27 PM »
I didn't think that you were the type to judge a whole nation by the actions of one person.

Brits are moaning about the immigration of Polish, Romanian or Bulgarian as cheap labour from the EU. But their businesspeople do take advantage of doing business with just that cheap labour, taking advantage of running their business in other EU countries. That's what I did show with that example. Your call for leaving the EU also cuts that prospective for Brits. Not to mention the London stockmarket loosing its importance in Europe by giving it to the stockmarkets in Paris and Frankfurt. Wanting to leave the EU is just populist blinding!
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sicho

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 02:31:12 PM »
Brits are moaning about the immigration of Polish, Romanian or Bulgarian as cheap labour from the EU. But their businesspeople do take advantage of doing business with just that cheap labour, taking advantage of running their business in other EU countries. That's what I did show with that example. Your call for leaving the EU also cuts that prospective for Brits. Not to mention the London stockmarket loosing its importance in Europe by giving it to the stockmarkets in Paris and Frankfurt. Wanting to leave the EU is just populist blinding!

It's the advantage that businesses are taking that creates the need to put a stop to unemployed and unskilled migrants turning up looking for jobs. Perhaps they take jobs that locals don't want at wages they won't accept but the main damage is the strain they put on the welfare state. Also, London is full of thieves from Eastern Europe and the authorities should have the power to deport them. Perhaps the answer is to require them to stop at the first EU State that they enter instead of them being helped to reach the ports of exit to the UK.

I haven't called for the UK to withdraw from the EU. There's a chance for the EU to put it's house in order so that it can be useful to be a member without the sacrifice of sovereignty that is now expected. However, if the EU continues down the path of federalism and control over individual States' budgets, then complete withdrawal becomes a probability.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: You won't like it here ♦ travel rights across EU next year
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 06:04:59 PM »
Tories warned not to discriminate against Romanians and BulgariansLib Dems say citizens from both nations should be treated as everyone else when they gain travel rights across EU next year


Bulgarians wait to board international coaches departing Sofia central bus station. Photograph: Daniel Berehulak/Getty Images

The Liberal Democrats are warning their Tory coalition partners against acting in a discriminatory manner as ministers draw up plans to impose welfare restrictions when Romanians and Bulgarians are given full travel rights across the EU next year.

As MEPs from the two countries claimed they were being treated as "second-class Europeans", Lib Dems said Britain must act within EU law which says that Romanians and Bulgarians must be treated like all EU citizens from next year.

One Lib Dem said: "The issue of Romanians and Bulgarians is a red herring. There is EU law. Anything you do would have to apply to all EU member states.

"We are up for making sure that the rules are correct. But they should not just apply to Romanians and Bulgarians. We have to look at the rules for all EU migrants."

Downing Street indicated on Friday that it was minded to impose limits when the prime minister's spokeswoman said that Britain would only welcome the "brightest and the best". The spokeswoman said: "What we are, and have been, very clear about is we welcome the brightest and best to the UK and support immigration that helps the UK labour market and our economy. What we don't welcome is the problem of the abuse of free movement when it comes to the pressures it can put on the UK. We welcome the free movement if it benefits our economy. It is a general comment. If there are people that can help our economy that is very welcome."

Britain's hard stance is understood to have played a role in persuading Romanian and Bulgarian MEPs to write to José Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission, to complain about discrimination. The MEPs wrote in the letter, which was reported by Reuters: "We believe that a wave of hostile statements since the beginning of the year aims to stigmatise these citizens as second-class Europeans who pose a threat to the social systems just because they want to exercise their basic rights to free movement and work."

The MEPs wrote to Barroso because he is formally charged with acting as a guardian of the EU treaties. Under EU rules, Romanian and Bulgarians will be given the same rights as citizens from the EU's other 25 states to travel and work across the EU from next year.

Britain fears that the lifting of "transitional controls", imposed on Romania and Bulgaria for seven years after they joined the EU in 2007, could lead to a large number of citizens from the two countries settling in Britain. The Tories were highly critical when the last government imposed no such controls when eight eastern European countries, most notably Poland, joined the EU in 2004.

Mark Harper, the Conservative immigration minister who is chairing a cross-Whitehall committee looking at the issue, has said that restrictions could be imposed on access to the NHS and to some benefit payments. In an interview with the BBC Two Daily Politics programme on Wednesday, Harper said: "What we want to make sure is people from Bulgaria and Romania, as many already have, come here and work and contribute. What we don't want is people coming to this country who are just here to claim benefits and live off the state."

The minister said that the government was examining access to the NHS and to benefits. "At the moment if somebody comes here to work they can access the health service on the same basis as someone who lives here. One of the questions we are considering is: is that right? Under the European treaty rules if you come here you are not supposed to be a burden on our health system. The NHS is a national health service, not an international one. So we are just looking at the rules to see whether we have sufficient protections in place."

Harper said that he would examine Britain's rules on benefits to ensure they were "not the easiest". He added: "One of the things we are looking at is not just what are our rules, which are actually quite tough. It is actually looking at what are our rules compared to our European neighbours, to make sure that if someone is making a choice not just about what they are going to earn but what they are going to get from the state we want to make sure we are not the easiest country."

The minister insisted that the restrictions would be applied generally. But the Lib Dems have been alarmed that the Tories want to discriminate against Romanians and Bulgarians because newspapers that have expressed concerns at the lifting of travel restrictions have been running reports that suggest citizens from the two countries will be targeted.
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Roger

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 02:10:11 PM »
I thought David Cameron's speech was a really good effort. He will have tickled the appetite of other Member Nations suffering from the detail of Eurocrat dominance. In my opinion, the wider EU and Euro situations are very likely to be quite different before the run-up to the Referendum, with the volatile Euro only hanging on in reality, 65% unemployment in Under 25's in Spain and horrendous economic and social situations in Greece, Portugal and so on. Merkel faces elections and a French Minister characterises France's economy as being 'totally bankrupt'. I don't advocating leaving the EU but there must be changes.

BRITAIN SEEMS TO BE INCREASINGLY UNGOVERNABLE - Immigration (as above), Gay marriages, Foreign interventions, Nuclear deterrents etc. etc. are managed by successive Governments apparently completely oblivious of public opinion. Despite all bluster, the Chancellor has pathetically failed to address benefit spending - laughably, I see that bus passes, winter fuel etc cannot be addressed and must continue to be paid to high income pensioners until after the next Election. How Brave !
Watch out for when the markets intervene in our dallying.

My position is usually fairly LEFTISH in such discussions, but the UK has a serious economic situation and fiddling around, won't sort it.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: You won't like it here ♦ Destination Britain ♦ why work
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 02:26:48 PM »
Next stop UK: Romanians & Bulgarians are queueing up for handout Britain


On the move ... Yanita and Julia see the UK as the passport to a good life - without having to work

AN army of jobless Bulgarians and out-of-work Romanians are preparing to invade Britain, The Sun can reveal today.
From next year people from the two countries gain the right to live and work in the UK unrestricted.

But it’s not just the work that is attracting them — it’s the generous benefits system too.

In Sofia, Bulgaria’s capital, Julia Atanasova and pal Yanita Minkova, both 24, told us they are eager to come here.

When we showed them our story from last week on the couple who spent their benefits on cigs, a luxury TV and a laptop computer, they confirmed their admiration for the UK’s system.

Julia said: “I can’t stand the thought of the wet weather in Britain but your benefits system is good.

“Everyone wants a good standard of living with luxuries like holidays. It is amazing people in the UK can afford so much without even having to work.” Logistics student Julia added: “I don’t want my children to grow up in Bulgaria.

“People don’t have security here — one day you can have a job and the next it can be gone.”

And, telling of her fear of the rife crime gangs in her country, she said: “You walk down the street and someone might kill you by accident because they wanted to kill someone else.”

The day after our interview, a man was shot four times by a sniper on the street yards from our reporter’s hotel.

Unemployed Bulgarian men Blagovest Tsenov and Dimitar Zlatarev, both 20, told us they will be among those buying one-way tickets when the borders open


Amazed ... jobless Todor with Sun

Blagovest said: “There is no work here for guys like us. When the restrictions are lifted, we’d love to move to the UK.”

Reading our story about the couple on benefits, they said: “You can’t buy all these things if you are unemployed in Bulgaria.

“A laptop is just a dream for many people here. When Bulgarians find out you can get so much for free in Britain they will all be rushing there.” In a nearby office, job agency boss Damian Ivanov said he is already sending scores of jobless men and women to the UK to work on farms — and he predicts that five times as many will leave when the borders are open.

“Britain is definitely the preferred destination for Bulgarian workers,” he told us. “The pay is best there, the standards higher, you can make more money for every month that you work.



“Other countries like Norway pay more but they have restrictions so you cannot find work so easily. Britain has better regulations which favour the worker.”

Sharp suited Ivanov added: “When the restrictions are lifted, many more Bulgarians will head to the UK to find work, there is no doubt about it.

“I would say five times as many, maybe more. If unemployment rises again — and the reality is it will — who knows how many people will leave.”

Ivanov’s comments will make worrying reading for the Coalition Government, which continues to insist only small numbers will immigrate when the borders open in January 2014. But our investigations found word about the perks of British life is spreading.



In the centre of Sofia, unemployed Anna Asenova said she is dreaming of starting a new life in soft touch Britain, where she might one day claim benefits while looking for a job.

She was forced to start selling hats and scarves on the pavement when her former boss cut her wages. The 52-year-old told The Sun: “It is amazing you can get laptops and big televisions without even having to work! Britain sounds a wonderful place.”

Bulgaria remains one of the poorest in the EU with the average worker earning just £336 a month.

Standing on the edge of a bustling market in the centre of Sofia, Todor Todorov, 54, also told how he is dreaming of a new life in the UK. He said: “I am a construction worker but I cannot find a job here. I do not get any money from the government — the only way I can survive is by standing here hoping someone might give me a little to help me out.

“It’s hard to believe even poor people in your country have so many nice things. If I had a chance I would get on the first bus tomorrow.”


Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 03:03:06 PM »
Please make sure, there are still enough entering Britain, so British businesspeople don't have to go to other EU countries to find cheap labour. ;)
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sicho

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 07:57:59 PM »
The voters don't want any of them.
 

Offline dodgeydave

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 08:03:01 PM »
the voters aint got a say and its far to late. i am quite happy for them 2 birds yanita and julia to enter the uk. the uk goverenment really dont know how many foreigeners are in the uk now. every where you go there are people of east european decent
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 09:43:54 PM »
A few days ago I read that the Romanians want Brits to visit their country. I think their teaser was something like "Half the women in Romania look like Kate Middleton and the other half like her sister." the News site Gandul did write: "You got bad weather, no jobs, no houses? That really sounds bad! Why don't you rather come to us?" Now why doesn't The Sun write about that? ;D
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sicho

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 09:48:17 PM »
Dracula country? No thanks.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 11:11:07 PM »
Afraid of vampires, Frankensteins and the like? Come on, you must have practiced living with those creatures, visiting The Rocky Horror Show on stage in London or watching The Rocky Horror Picture Show on screen, TV or video.

TRHPS "Sweet Transvestite"


Time Warp - Rocky Horror Picture Show


Rocky Horror Picture Show-Hot Patootie-Bless my soul


The Rocky Horror Picture Show (full album)
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Offline thaiga

David Cameron: Justice for all – unless you're an immigrant

Prime minister promises to rethink access to housing, health service and benefits to reduce Britain's 'pull factor' for incomers


David Cameron: 'We’re going to look at every single one of our systems ... and make sure we’re not a soft touch for those that want to come here.' Photograph: PA
The prime minister revealed on Wednesday that access to justice was another of a growing list of public services that ministers were trying to reorganise to restrict access for new immigrants to Britain.

From April, the coalition government has already axed the right of foreigners to claim legal aid for immigration cases. David Cameron's latest comments have now raised speculation that ministers could mount a further assault on legal aid, targeting the existing rights of foreign nationals – from illegal immigrants to tourists – to get financial support if they are implicated in a court case while in the UK.

Speaking just a day after the planning minister, Nick Boles, said he was nervous about the impact of immigration on public services and housing, Cameron said many parts of the system needed addressing as part of a ministerial push to reduce Britain's "pull factor" for incomers.

With growing pressure from Conservative backbenchers and traditionally Tory media over the issue ahead of the lifting of restrictions on nationals from Bulgaria and Romania at the end of this year, the prime minister this week chaired a special cabinet meeting on the subject.

"Britain has always been an open and welcoming economy, but it isn't right if our systems are being abused," he told MPs at prime minister's questions. "We're going to look at every single one of our systems: housing, health and benefits, and make sure we're not a soft touch for those that want to come here.

"There are many parts of our current arrangements that simply don't pass a simple commonsense test in terms of access to housing, access to the health service, and access to justice and other things, which should be the right of all British citizens but they are not the right of anyone who just chooses to come here."

No 10 later refused to be drawn on details of how "access to justice" and other services could be restricted, insisting that "this is the beginning of the process" of ministers studying their options.

However the comments focused attention on the often controversial legal aid budget – an issue highlighted by reports that Abu Qatada, once described as Osama bin Laden's right hand man, had received more than half a million pounds to help fight the government's attempts to deport him for being "a serious risk to our national security".

The coalition has already introduced legislation to axe legal aid for immigration cases such as Abu Qatada's as part of £350m of cuts which come into force in April, and the justice secretary Chris Grayling has signalled he will study the scheme for further cuts after that.

Cameron's comments on Wednesday raise the prospect that any future review is more likely to look at further restrictions to the rights of foreign nationals to claim legal aid, from a situation where currently applications for funding are judged without taking "nationality, residency or citizenship" into consideration.

Steve Hynes, director of the Legal Action Group which monitors cuts to legal aid, said he was unaware of any plans to cut legal aid to foreign nationals: "David Cameron can promise it, but is it possible?" he said. "Is the prime minister saying that foreigners are not entitled to a fair trial?

"It would be a minefield. It's an intrinsic part of our legal part of system that all those who face charges are entitled to a defence. If they haven't got the cash then there is state support for them.

"Any changes would be open to challenge. Foreign nationals are entitled to legal aid in all sorts of contexts. He may have promised something but it sounds like he hasn't checked it with the Ministry of Justice."

Both the Bar Council, which represents barristers, and the Ministry of Justice also said they did not know of any plans to restrict legal aid for those from overseas.

Separately, Cameron's attack on Brown's decision in 2007 to axe the lowest 10p tax rate in PMQs raised hopes among some campaigners, including the grassroots website Conservative Voice, that the government could be preparing to restore it.

The Daily Mail has reported that senior ministers are "examining" the idea, though other sources have indicated that it would be too expensive at a time of deep budget cuts.

In their weekly encounter, the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, tackled Cameron on whether living standards would have risen or fallen by the next general election in 2015 because of rising prices and falling wages, and repeated the opposition's attack on the government for cutting the top rate of tax from April from 50p to 45p in the pound.

"Every week that goes by the evidence mounts against him on the economy," said Miliband, who was due to make a major speech on the subject on Thursday.

"There's a living standards crisis for the many and all he does is stand up for the few at the top."

In what has become a familiar set of exchanges, Cameron countered by stressing that the top rate of tax was still higher than under the Labour government – which raised it from 40p to 50p just weeks before the 2010 general election – and that the coalition government with the Liberal Democrats was on course to raise the tax-free earnings threshold to £10,000 by the end of this parliament.

"No one in this country is in any doubt why we had to take difficult decisions: it was because of the mess left by him," added Cameron, referring to Miliband's role as an adviser to the former chancellor and prime minister, Gordon Brown, and later a minister in the last government.

source

Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

sicho

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Re: You won't like it here
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2013, 04:18:48 PM »
Nah, too many dead horses.
 

 



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