Author Topic: The Brexit  (Read 47428 times)

Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #210 on: April 04, 2019, 08:02:44 PM »
Gina Miller, she is the one who caused all these problems. She should have her citizenship revoked and be deported back to Guayana. We need a Windrush boat in reverse. Bum’s Rush sounds just fine.

From Wiki:-

In June 2016, in the aftermath of the United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, Miller privately engaged the City of London law firm Mishcon de Reya to challenge the authority of the British Government to invoke Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union using prerogative powers, arguing that only Parliament can take away rights that Parliament has granted.[20]

On 3 November 2016, the High Court of Justice ruled that Parliament had to legislate before the Government could invoke Article 50.[28][29] Miller said outside the High Court: "The judgment, I hope – when it's read by the Government and they contemplate the full judgment – that they will make the wise decision of not appealing but pressing forward and having a proper debate in our sovereign Parliament, our mother of parliaments that we are so admired for all over the world".[30]
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Offline Roger

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #211 on: April 05, 2019, 01:34:20 PM »
Now that April Fools day has passed - I suspect there won't be much agreement on this which I've pasted over from K-F for JF to enjoy  ;)

''Jacob Rees-Mogg was attacked on 'Today' for 'tweeting' this very same YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63IcW4eo4uM

J R-M was not amused. I too think it quite possible to agree with Dr Weidel's views on Brexit without necessarily endorsing her views on Immigration and Muslims. For myself, she articulated on Brexit exactly what I have felt myself over the last two years whilst observing the process. Before writing Dr Weidel off as a 'Populist', a common trick used to downplay any view that fails to meet the conventional 'wisdoms' these days, I'd suggest 'Popular' as being more accurate - the amount of support for her comments in the Bundestag was quite evident.

''The EU should have given David Cameron the concessions he asked for . . . this Brexit will be costly for the EU, which means that by definition, costly for German Taxpayers. Costly like the Bank bailouts, the Greece bailout, the green energy policy, the opening of the border, the destruction of the automobile and other key industries, and the massive inflation of our single currency . . . .

The UK is the second biggest economy in the EU, as big as the 19 smallest combined.

Onto Brexit for which you are partly responsible, due to your negligence and your failure to help out the UK. Our historically good relationship with the UK is being threatened as a result. What did David Cameron ask that was so terrible? No more social welfare payments immediately and for everyone. Stronger National Parliaments. Less EU bureaucracy. But in Brussels he was banging his head against a brick wall . . . .

(Is the UK) . . a Partner with whom we have lived together for 40 years in good times and bad, really going to be treated like Paraguay or Papua New Guinea ?  . . What a mockery. Is it any wonder that the UK sees bad faith behind every manouevre from Brussels ?

Brexit negotiator Barnier, is supposed to have confided in Friends, I quote, ''my mission will have been a success when the terms are so brutal for the British, that they prefer to stay in the Union''. With Friends like these . . .

The EU must be reformed from within. This includes a veto right for Nation States against rules from Brussels, reforming Article 50, granting access to the single market for exiting Countries, and securing the EU's external borders . . . .
''

These are just extracts - DR Weidel bemoans the effect on Germany's EU influence as the UK leaves and the effect on the German economy. She's very 'down' on France !

This is worth watching (listening to as it has sub-titles) whatever your views on Brexit.''

JF ATB



Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #212 on: April 05, 2019, 04:37:08 PM »
Not worth reading, Roger! Please refrain from copying and pasting full articles from that forum. If anybody wanted to read that, he/she could look it up there. ;)

New - and relevant in this thread - is, that May asked for Brexit extension to 30 June, the same date requested by the government last month, but rejected by EU leaders in Brussels. That would mean the UK had to participate in the EU election. I am against an extension that short. It will only cause more pressure and confusion. Get it over with! Picking up the pieces in the EU will be easier than endlessly dealing with UK politicians not knowing what they want, just being against everything. Let them ruin their country!

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #213 on: April 11, 2019, 07:27:41 AM »
Oktober 31 is the next date for Brexit, unless in Britain there is unity about a deal. In that (still not very likely) case they can even leave earlier. But there is also more time for revoking Article 50. Time to think and a couple of times re-think the whole Brexit over! Maybe the elections to the EU parliament next month in Britain will give an answer, what the people in the UK really want, now having learned about the whole impact.

The EU has shown unity again. And best condition of this by the EU27 granted and by British PM May accepted extension is, that the remaining 27 EU countries can hold meetings on their own affairs without the Brits disturbing, though they're also members still. That's what became of the Brexit ultras' threat to cause as much trouble as possible, if the Uk had to participate in the EU elections. ;)

Now who'll bet on the UK not asking for yet another extension again? ;)


Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #214 on: April 11, 2019, 11:03:33 AM »
The handcuffs agreed to:

"The French president also insisted on the redrafting of the EU’s summit communique, writing in that the UK – during any extra time as a member state – would have to “refrain from any measure which could jeopardise the attainment of the union’s objectives, in particular when participating in the decision-making processes of the union”, according to a leak obtained by the Guardian.

The EU27 also emphasised their right to meet without the UK on key long-term decisions."

The Guardian

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #215 on: April 11, 2019, 11:44:23 AM »
On this threat with a Trojan Horse, if they had to participate in the EU elections, there is a good comment by Peter Sturm in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ).

I'll translate it for our readers:

If they had to take part in the European elections again, they wanted to make life as difficult as possible for the Europeans, the British Brexit-Ultras announce - what a threat!

It must sound historically meaningful when the British Brexit Ultras give their anger to "Europe" free rein. After the great power fantasies of the recent past, the Trojan Horse is now being sought, which according to legend once brought the Greeks the victory over the city of Troy.

After all, if they had to take part in the European elections again, they wanted to make life as difficult as possible for the Europeans, and operate like a Trojan horse in a hostile environment. What a threat! But then somehow disappointing.

The nostalgics fixated on their little England have obviously spent all their energy on maintaining their cricket pitches and have lost sight of the reality of the EU.

Would their monster in the herd of the Straches, Salvinis, and as the other unpredictable steeds are all called, even attract attention? You have to be English to believe that.

But that's the basic tone of the exit campaign on the island. Delusion replaces reality.

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #216 on: April 11, 2019, 02:51:53 PM »
Quote from: Roger on K-F
...one wonders if we should revoke Article 50 and then, try again later, maybe when HoC is better organised, we have a new Prime Minister AND the EU might well be in a weaker position.

After the UK has just proven to the EU27, how strong unity (of the EU27) can be, that is a very unlikely situation in the near future to come up. The UK made the EU27 realise the strength of standing together. The UK's politicians overplayed their cards. Another attempt would make them only the laughing stock of World politics again. I think most Brit politicians, at least of this generation, should have realised that by now.:)

Best would be trying to reform the EU from within. But having shown the World, how their institutions, mainly the Parliament, work, they might have problems being taken seriously. It comes down to the UK first needing to reform their own political system, "updating" it to today's challenges...

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #217 on: April 13, 2019, 06:53:58 PM »
The situation, never seen anywhere before of its kind, is, that Brits have to prepare for an election to the EU Parliament, not knowing, whether they will have those elections at all or leave the EU before it with that deal their PM May made with the EU, when their House of Commons actually does agree to that before the scheduled elections. Could that political mess be even bigger? Catch?

Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #218 on: April 14, 2019, 12:01:45 PM »
The situation, never seen anywhere before of its kind  There is an interesting article by Polly Mackenzie on unherd.com (which seems to be an interesting site) which says we have been there before in 1788:-

Parliament is panicking. A full-blown constitutional crisis is underway. The opposition see the chaos as their chance to seize control. The government is using any tactic it can to stall for time – even a brief parliamentary recess feels like a reprieve. And all because the country’s leader has gone mad, and no-one knows what to do about it.
It is December 1788. George III is experiencing a protracted period of serious mental illness, and his physicians are unable to say if he will ever recover. He has retreated to Kew, in the care of his wife Queen Charlotte; the opposition, under Charles Fox, is working to install their ally, the king’s son Prince George, in his place as regent. After endless parliamentary negotiations, a bill is finally passed in the House of Commons, but the King recovers before the House of Lords is able to finalise the legislation.
This period, known as the Regency Crisis and chronicled by the film The Madness of King George, disrupted and disturbed the constitutional norms of the United Kingdom.
What the rhetoricians and cartoonists of the age were most struck by, was the sudden reversal in the two parties’ positions. Fox’s Whigs were traditionally in favour of shifting the balance of power away from the monarch, and towards parliament – but they found themselves arguing for the Prince’s prerogative right to assume his father’s throne during his incapacity. Pitt, the Prime Minister, was by contrast a Tory, and was as such expected to back royal rule. Instead, he acted to put parliament in charge.
George III’s mental illness was serious, and real. His symptoms are variously described as including ranting, foaming at the mouth, psychosis, delusions and rage. Some historians still believe it was caused by a genetic metabolic disorder called porphyria, which famously turns the sufferer’s urine blue.
The mainstream view, however, is now that Mad King George suffered from a mental, rather than physical, illness. Whatever the truth, the symptoms recurred throughout his lifetime, and by 1811 settled so profoundly upon his mind that he never recovered. At this point, the Regency Bill was finally approved: his son took to the throne.
So, if you think our current constitutional crisis is dragging on, remember that we lasted 23 years with a King upon whose sanity no one could rely. The British ability to postpone, delay and muddle through is perhaps our most dependable national trait.
Theresa May is not mad, in any clinical sense; she certainly doesn’t suffer from porphyria. But she has been accused of madness by at least one of her MPs, and far more have railed to the press with the question: “How the hell do we get rid of her?” – a question that seems to be echoing through history from the lips of countless 18th and 19th century politicians and constitutional experts.
The Conservative Party’s constitution has – at least until December 2019 – given us a Prime Minister who cannot be removed from office by her party, no matter what she does. And, as in the Regency Crisis, an endless barrage of projects have been launched to try to navigate around this constitutional outrage.
Any number of efforts are being made to prevent a Prime Minister so many believe incompetent from continuing to govern. Examples include a party members’ petition to change the party’s constitution and enable a new vote of no confidence; a plot to steal the mace from parliament to prevent it from sitting; and a plan for the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs to hold an indicative vote that reveals how much they hate her.
Most of these conspiring MPs claim that they’re acting according to principle when they pursue their plans. But as in the winter of 1788, individual and party interest is the driving force behind most of these apparent principles. Fox was suddenly in favour of hereditary monarchy and royal power because Prince George was an ally and friend. Pitt became a sudden convert to the cause of Parliamentary sovereignty because he knew that the Prince would sack him the moment he took the throne. The Prince’s obvious partiality was a decisive factor in enabling Pitt to secure a delay.
But it was the Prince’s character which made his father – in periods of lucidity – an intransigent opponent to his appointment as Regent. Perhaps Blackadder wasn’t entirely fair to the Prince of Wales, in its portrayal of him as a brainless dandy, but history offers us little evidence of the Prince’s good character. He seems to have taken every opportunity to annoy his father. He drank and ate to excess; he gambled and expected parliament to settle his debts; he conducted endless affairs, married illegally and against his father’s will and then, when forced by parliament to marry a Protestant, he effectively became a bigamist.
Parliament knew all this about him when they finally appointed him Regent in 1811. They put some controls on his Regency: he couldn’t confer peerages for the first year, for example. But they appointed him, nonetheless.
In the context of a hereditary monarchy, you could argue that they had little choice. But parliament had taken an aggressive approach to choosing monarchs they liked ever since the Restoration: the Glorious Revolution replaced James II with his daughter Mary; when Mary’s sister Anne died without a living heir, it was her second cousin George I who inherited the throne, despite there being 50 living relatives ahead of him in the line of succession. Parliament effectively gifted the throne to the Hanoverian princes simply because they wanted a Protestant. Given this precedent, they didn’t need to choose Prince George to replace his father.
It seems that when your leader is mad, your standards drop. The Regency is a cautionary tale for those dreaming of replacing Theresa May. Don’t measure the replacements against the woman in Number 10. Measure them against history. Yes, she needs to go. But let’s not land ourselves with someone as inadequate as George IV.
If the old only could, if the young only knew.

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #219 on: May 15, 2019, 10:54:39 AM »
What's in a name? That which we call May's Brexit-Deal
By "Withdrawal Agreement Bill" would "smell" as much.

Who in the House of Commons will not notice and vote differently next month at vote #4?

Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #220 on: May 16, 2019, 07:36:40 AM »
I now realize that I have been too hasty in criticizing the House of Commons in making no progress on Brexit after 3 years.  I have just finished reading a book by Simon Heffer:- The Age of Decadence, Britain 1880 to 1914.  Chapter 6 of this book is devoted to the story of Charles Bradlaugh who was elected as MP for Northampton in 1880.  New MPs, when first entering the House of Commons, are required to swear an oath of allegiance.  The last four words of the oath are “so help me God”.  Bradlaugh was an atheist and so he explained that he was prepared to swear the oath without the last four words.  This then precipitated three years of endless debates in the House as to whether Bradlaugh should be admitted to the House.  There were also three by-elections in Northampton in this time and Bradlaugh was re-elected each time, only to be refused admission to the House. Finally he was admitted as everyone had become bored with the problem. 

So if the House took 3 years deliberating over four words, then it is only reasonable to allow them much longer to deliberate over the Withdrawal Agreement which runs to over 600 pages.  The deliberations should be complete by the end of the next century.
So help me God.



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Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #221 on: May 30, 2019, 09:52:55 AM »

Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #222 on: May 30, 2019, 10:17:08 AM »
Guido has a more robust view on the “Norwich man” than the Eastern Daily Press:-

https://order-order.com/2019/05/29/embarrassing-anti-boris-pitch-raise-2-million-gullible-remainers/

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Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #223 on: May 31, 2019, 10:53:47 AM »

Trump supports Nige and Boris.  This could be a dream ticket with Boris as PM and Nige as Brexit Minister:-

https://order-order.com/2019/05/30/trump-nigel-boris-friends-mine/
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Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #224 on: May 31, 2019, 12:17:58 PM »
I think, an island could be found, where all three could live together happily, just doesn't have to be the British Island.

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #225 on: June 01, 2019, 10:00:00 AM »
Quote
The Trump administration wants the UK to follow the 2016 referendum result and leave the European Union, National Security Advisor John Bolton said.

Speaking to the UK's Daily Telegraph, Mr Bolton said Brexit was an opportunity for the UK to become a "strong and independent country". (BBC)

Naw, it couldn't be that he actually meant he wants a weaker Europe for the US's good.  ;)

Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #226 on: June 01, 2019, 12:20:30 PM »
I never thought that I would ever find myself in agreement with anything said by John Bolton.
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Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #227 on: June 02, 2019, 08:16:33 AM »
Excellent article in the Sunday Times today, exclusive interview with Donald Trump:-
Donald Trump today calls on Britain to send Nigel Farage to negotiate with Brussels and pursue a no-deal Brexit if the EU refuses to give Britain what it wants.
In an interview with The Sunday Times ahead of his state visit to the UK this week, the American president said the next prime minister should refuse to pay the £39bn Brexit divorce bill and “walk away” if Brussels does not bow to Britain’s demands.
Trump said that it was not too late for Britain to follow his advice and “sue” the EU to give Britain greater “ammunition” in the talks.
And he vowed to “go all out” to secure a free trade deal between Britain and America within months of Brexit taking place to make up for lost trade with the EU.
The president is due to meet the Queen tomorrow, enjoy a state banquet, hold talks with Theresa May and attend D-Day commemorations in Portsmouth before leaving on Wednesday evening for further ceremonies in France.
But in a dramatic break with diplomatic convention he launched a controversial foray into British politics, calling on the government to stop delaying Brexit and signalling that the “excellent” Boris Johnson should be prime minister.
In the interview, Trump also:
● Said he would have “to know” Jeremy Corbyn before authorising US intelligence to share its most sensitive secrets with a hard-left Labour government
● Told the Labour leader that he should “get along with the United States” if he wants Britain to continue to benefit from US military and intelligence support
● And warned ministers they must “be careful” not to jeopardise intelligence sharing by letting Chinese firm Huawei into Britain’s 5G mobile phone network.
Trump made clear that he believes Britain must leave the EU this year. “They gotta get it done,” he said from the White House Oval Office. “They have got to get the deal closed.”
With Tory leadership candidates divided over whether to pursue a no-deal Brexit, Trump backed Johnson, Dominic Raab, Sajid Javid and Esther McVey, who have all said the UK must leave, with or without a deal, on October 31. “If they don’t get what they want I would walk away,” Trump said. “If you don’t get the deal you want, if you don’t get a fair deal, then you walk away.”
In a move that will unnerve even those Conservative contenders who want a hard Brexit, Trump said it was “a mistake” for the Tories not to involve Farage, the Brexit Party leader, in the negotiations and that his success in the recent European elections meant he had earned his place.
“I like Nigel a lot. He has a lot to offer,” Trump said. “He is a very smart person. They won’t bring him in. Think how well they would do if they did. They just haven’t figured that out yet.”
The president said Britain should also withhold the £39bn payment, around $50bn, to gain leverage. “If I were them I wouldn’t pay $50bn,” he said. “That is me. I would not pay, that is a tremendous number.”
Just days before his final meeting with May, Trump was withering about the prime minister’s handling of the negotiations saying she left the EU with “very little to lose” and “no downside”.
Trump confirmed that he told May to sue the EU to give Britain greater leverage. “What I would do is, for those mistakes made by the EU that cost the UK a lot of money and a lot of harm, I would have put that on the table, whether it is in the form of litigation or in the form of a request. But they chose not to do that. It’s very hard for the UK to get a good deal when they go into the negotiation that way.”
Trump pledged that doing a trade deal with America would more than compensate the UK for any lost trade with the EU and vowed to move things forward during his trip this week.
He said one could be concluded “much quicker” than a year. “I would go all out,” he said. “It would be a great, a great advantage to the UK. A tremendous advantage.
“We have the potential to be an incredible trade partner with the UK. We have tremendous potential to make up more than the difference. We will be talking to them about that. One of the advantages of Brexit is the fact that now you can deal with the No 1 economy in the world by far.”
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Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #228 on: June 02, 2019, 11:43:59 AM »
Funny to read! Who might fall for that? Sounds to me like Donny is getting desperate for his approval rating at home. But Nigel, Donny and Boris would really make a great team in a secured place!

Looking at the latest figures after the EU elections, the right wing populists are not gaining anymore now, while environmentalists are on the way up: finally young people seem to start caring for politics!

And look at the value of the pound: people seem to be running from Donny's takeover-attempt:

Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #229 on: June 09, 2019, 08:47:56 AM »
So, crowdfraudster Marcus Ball got his case thrown out.  I just hope he has enough money to pay BoJos legal costs.

https://order-order.com/2019/06/07/private-prosecution-boris-thrown-high-court/
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Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #230 on: June 09, 2019, 09:27:57 AM »
And Boris Johnson threatens to hold back EU ‘divorce’ bill to force a deal.

Is he so naive to think he could win something by breaking a contract? British farmers for example did get the subsidies from the EU; is there a reason now for the British government for not fulfilling the contract with the EU and not paying their part? Blackmailing is no "reason", it's criminal!

Makes me remember the case of Walter Bau AG whose liquidator in 2011 successfully impounded the then Thai Crown Prince's airplane he came to Germany by to get the 39 million Euros owed by the Kingdom of Thailand for that motorway project in Bangkok. Imagine the impounding of British property in Europe or anywhere else... ;)

Offline Taman Tun

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #231 on: June 09, 2019, 11:47:29 AM »
The EU will soon have to wake up to the fact that it is no longer negotiating with the suburban housewife.
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Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #232 on: June 09, 2019, 02:09:02 PM »
Everybody's curious, who they'll choose to wreck the UK even further. Will it be somebody who counts on BigD as "the saviour"? Will the UK now become a colony of that former colony of Britain in America, called the USA? Everybody knows how the colonies were exploited in history. Does anybody think the UK's fate to be any lighter?

Ever heard that one: "Jump out of the frying pan into the fire"?


Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #233 on: June 10, 2019, 09:10:37 AM »
Everybody's curious, who they'll choose to wreck the UK even further.

If he gets elected, it will be Boris, who'll further wreck the UK. Now he's tring to buy the well-earner's votes by promising to  drastically reduce their taxes to "stimulate the economy":

Quote
Boris Johnson is planning to slash income tax for more than three million people by increasing the threshold for the 40p rate to £80,000 if he becomes Prime Minister.

Mr Johnson has drawn up radical plans to increase the point at which people start paying the higher rate of income tax from £50,000 to £80,000, pulling hundreds of thousands of people out of the 40p band entirely.

The move, which will cost an estimated £9.6 billion a year, will save people thousands of pounds on their tax bill. It will be funded from the £26.6 billion of "fiscal headroom" that is currently set aside by the Treasury for no-deal preparations.
The Telegraph

And how is he going to pay the bills? :-[


Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #234 on: August 22, 2019, 10:14:36 AM »
Quote
There could be a deal, but only without the controversial fallback option, he said in Berlin. To add loud and with a strong English accent in German: "We can do it!"

The Chancellor reacted to her notorious comment from the time of the German refugee crisis with a tortured smile. Awkward, as the Briton would say in such a situation.
(Welt)

So much to Boris' visit in Berlin; there isn't anything to say!

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #235 on: August 22, 2019, 12:15:43 PM »
Quote
French President Emmanuel Macron called for clarification on his Brexit plans just ahead of a meeting with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. A renegotiation of the EU withdrawal based on the British proposals was "not an option," said Macron, according to news agency AFP on Wednesday evening at a press conference in Paris.
(Frankfurter Allgemeine)

Quote
In particular, Johnson's desire to override the arrangements for organizing border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland was impracticable, Macron said. Should Britain leave the EU unregulated, it is due to the government in London and not to the European Union.

In addition, Macron warned Johnson before the idea that a trade agreement with America could protect Britain from economic collapse: "Can the cost of a hard Brexit be compensated by the US? No!" said Macron.
(Zeit)

Offline Johnnie F.

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Re: The Brexit
« Reply #236 on: August 29, 2019, 12:26:14 PM »
Parliament is "on vacation", not representing people anymore. Now what? :uhm

 



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