Author Topic: The Brexit  (Read 14071 times)

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Offline thaiga

The Brexit
« on: June 13, 2016, 06:46:52 PM »
Pensions for British elderly threatened if Brexit wins, warns British PM

A government guarantee that protects pensions for millions of elderly people would be under threat if Britain quits the EU, Prime Minister David Cameron warned Sunday.

A so-called triple-lock guarantee has been government policy since 2010, ensuring an annual above-inflation rise in state pensions.

The grey-vote became the battleground in what is the last full week of campaigning ahead of a June 23 national referendum to decide if Britain should remain as a member of the European Union, or leave.

Cameron warned of a self-inflicted recession, leading to a lost decade as Britain grappled with a Brexit success.

"It would be irresponsible not to talk about the risks of leaving," he said, warning of a black hole of up to 57 billion U.S. dollars in Britain's public finances.

In the Sunday Telegraph, Cameron said: "We'd see a decline in the value of the pound, and of the value of the assets we own, like our homes. And because we'd probably need to raise interest rates to help deal with the shock, mortgage rates would rise.

"One area we'd be forced to look at is pensions. We said: pensioners should expect dignity and security in retirement. That's why we introduced the Triple Lock. It means that basic state pension will always rise in line with whichever is higher - earnings, inflation or 2.5 per cent.

"But if we had a big black hole, we could struggle to justify this special protection any longer. Even if we could justify it morally, it wouldn't actually be affordable. Not when pensions represent a huge portion of public spending - over 90 billion pounds (128 billion U.S. dollars) this year - and when inflation is forecast to hit 4 per cent if we leave Europe. So here is the reality: if we leave, the pensioner benefits would be under threat, and the Triple Lock could no longer be guaranteed in the long term."

Cameron's warning was roundly condemned by leave campaigners, with a number of commentators saying scare tactics could send people into the leave camp, resentful at being threatened by big-names in the remain camp.

Three Brexit-supporting MPs from Cameron's own Conservative Party, all rounded on Cameron. John Redwood, said MPs on all sides of the House of Commons would never vote for the triple-lock policy to be dropped.

"Mr Cameron's extraordinary claim that pensions might not be safe on Brexit is wrong," Redwood wrote on his social media site.

Iain Duncan Smith described Cameron's threat as baseless and vindictive, while Priti Patel accused Cameron of scaremongering and spreading fear.

The Sunday Express newspaper claimed emergency battle plans are being drawn up to try to win over "remain" voters after a series of opinion polls put Leave ahead.

The newspaper said plans will see Cameron take a back seat in the campaign after polling showed he has lost the trust of voters on the referendum issue.

Instead Labour, reported the Express, will be put in charge of winning over wavering voters in the North of England, while further efforts will be made to discredit prominent Leave supporters, including former London mayor Boris Johnson.

The Express quoted an unnamed source as saying Downing Street had been given a wake-up call and "now realised the prospect of Britain leaving the EU was very real."

The leader of the Church of England, Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby declared Sunday he supported Remain.

"June 23 is a date on which we, happily, do not literally have to fight for our freedom or future but we are going to make a choice that will change the lives of all of us, and the next generations, both in this country and indirectly for much of Europe," wrote Welby.

news.xinhuanet.com
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Offline sowhat

What a cock up,Pensions for British elderly threatened,then do something about it,the poor old pensioners threatened again
some have worked all their lives and had it drummed into them "save for your old age".
what return are they getting on their savings,next to nothing,what are the expats here getting to the pound 49 today. :-[

i posted yesterday dear old vera lynn / There'll Always Be An England / yes.
but it will never be the same
 

Offline Aussie

Another scare mongering lie from globalist Cameron.  Stop the immigration and use that money spent on the misfits and give it to the pensioners.
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 

Offline thaiga

yes i know it's the sun. But ....

UK tabloid urges Britain to free itself from 'dictatorial Brussels'


Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Online Taman Tun

So the Sun has come out firmly for Brexit as has the Mail and Telegraph.  But the world is waiting with baited breath to hear the official stance of Koratfart. WE DEMAND TO BE TOLD!
We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out. Churchill
 

Offline Johnnie F.

WE DEMAND TO BE TOLD!

IMO Europe could do fine without GB, FR and DE instead of those trying to dictate EU politics. Whether those could do as well without the EU market is another question.
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Offline thaiga

So the Sun has come out firmly for Brexit as has the Mail and Telegraph.  But the world is waiting with baited breath to hear the official stance of Koratfart. WE DEMAND TO BE TOLD!
You could be in for a bit of a wait there t/t :-X
While your waiting you might like to know  "The nervousness around the Brexit story increased the volatility in global bond markets"


World stocks unravel on Brexit fears

Stock markets extended a global sell-off Tuesday on rising prospects of Britain next week voting to leave the European Union.

Investors meanwhile started paying for the privilege of owning rock-solid German government bonds as fears of a possible Brexit and economic worries caused a rush to the safety of German debt.

Strong demand for German sovereign bonds, known as "Bunds", caused prices to peak, in turn pushing their yields into negative territory for the first time ever.

"The nervousness around the Brexit story increased the volatility in global bond markets," said Ipek Ozkardeskaya, market analyst at traders London Capital Group.

In a bid to seek safety, traders are piling also into the yen and gold, or alternative haven investments.

On Tuesday, the euro hit a 3.5-year low at 118.52 yen.

Caution across markets was reinforced also by policy meetings of the US, Japanese and British central banks taking place this week.

The Federal Reserve will conclude a two-day meeting Wednesday and while it is not expected to hike interest rates for several months, investors hope it will give some guidance on monetary policy.

Opinion is divided on whether the Bank of Japan will add to its stimulus when it finishes its own gathering Thursday, while the same day the Bank of England is widely expected to hold rates at 0.5%.

"Expectations of weak global growth and ever-enduring easy monetary policy, likely to be reinforced at central bank meetings this week, is seeing a mass exit from equities and feeding demand for bonds, sending yields to record lows," said Jasper Lawler, analyst at traders CMC Markets.

Around 1030 GMT in stock market trades, London's benchmark FTSE 100 index was down 1.3% compared with Monday's close.

In the eurozone, Frankfurt's DAX 30 lost 0.7% and the Paris CAC 40 slid 1.4%.

In Southeast Asia, stocks were cautious as investors played safe.

Index provider MSCI's decision on whether to allow domestic Chinese shares into its emerging markets index also dampened sentiment.

"MSCI's inclusion of China's A shares can also push the markets further sideways or it could have a short-term negative effect," Aller said.

"Even though inclusion will only take effect next year, it will reduce the weightage of other countries and have a greater impact on larger markets."

A decision to allow yuan-denominated shares - or A shares - into its widely used Emerging Markets Index, could draw $400 billion into Chinese shares in the next decade, MSCI estimates show.

The Philippine index closed down 1.25% on profit taking. Consumer cyclicals and utilities were the biggest drag on the index.

Singapore ended 0.6% weaker, its fourth consecutive day of losses as oil and gas stocks led the index lower on falling global oil prices.

Vietnam and Indonesia closed 0.3% higher, while Malaysia ended 0.2% lower.

Bangkokpost
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Offline thaiga

Germany warns Brexit could lead to EU 'disintegration'

If the UK votes to leave the EU next week, the move could ultimately lead to the bloc's disintegration, Germany's foreign minister has warned.

Frank-Walter Steinmeier was speaking near Berlin after talks with his French counterpart, Jean-Marc Ayrault.

Mr Steinmeier warned against "a nationalism that pits one European state against another".

Leave campaigners in the UK have previously dismissed similar warnings as scaremongering.

The referendum on whether to leave or remain will be held on 23 June.

Germany is the UK's biggest trade partner in Europe.

"A vote to leave would shake the union," Mr Steinmeier said at a joint news conference in Brandenburg.

"It would not just carry on as 28 [members] minus one. It would require concerted efforts to ensure that the union holds together and that a decades-long, successful integration effort does not end in disintegration."

Mr Ayrault said the EU would keep evolving with the times.

"Europe can't be static, it must keep moving," he said. "Today it faces contradictions, slow-downs, difficulties, anxieties and fears. We want to give Europe a new dynamism."

bbc.com

England: Britain's EU referendum rivals clash on the Thames
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Offline thaiga

Re: “Britain’s not a quitter”
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2016, 02:12:39 PM »
“Britain’s not a quitter” says Cameron in Brexit debate

"Britain's not a quitter" says Cameron in EU tv debate


Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron made an impassioned call for voters to choose to stay in the EU when campaigning resumed on Sunday.

In a televised question and answer programme he said Britain isn't a quitter, Britain is a fighter.

"If we choose to leave, we can leave but let's be clear if we do leave we are walking out the door, we are quitting, we are giving up on this organisation which even if we leave will have a huge effect on our lives, our children, on our opportunities, on our .......

full article: euronews.com
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Offline thaiga

Re:The world waits on UK
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2016, 01:25:48 PM »
The world waits on UK

Thai economy unlikely to be badly hit by exit

Britain's European Union referendum has global markets on a knife edge. Fears of "Brexit" on Thursday have already gripped global equities and revved up demand for safe havens such as the Japanese yen, gold and the US dollar.

Many investors expect Britain to vote to leave the EU, while opinion polls put the Leave camp slightly ahead of the Remain campaign.

Yet the impact from Brexit on Thailand's trade and economy is likely to be limited even though it could have a ripple effect on the capital market.
Macro economy

The Thai economy is not expected to be directly affected by Brexit because exports to Britain only make up about 2% of Thailand's shipments, said Jitipol Puksamatanan, TMB Analytics' vice-president.

Britain's European Union referendum has global markets on a knife edge. Fears of "Brexit" on Thursday have already gripped global equities and revved up demand for safe havens such as the Japanese yen, gold and the US dollar.

Many investors expect Britain to vote to leave the EU, while opinion polls put the Leave camp slightly ahead of the Remain campaign.

Yet the impact from Brexit on Thailand's trade and economy is likely to be limited even though it could have a ripple effect on the capital market.

Macro economy

The Thai economy is not expected to be directly affected by Brexit because exports to Britain only make up about 2% of Thailand's shipments, said Jitipol Puksamatanan, TMB Analytics' vice-president.

"Direct impact on the Thai economy would not be substantial because of the minimal trade volume, but [Brexit] could have an effect on slowing global economic growth, which could in turn affect Thailand's economy," he said.

Since the EU and Britain account for only about 10% of Thailand's trade, slower investment in the EU and Britain could affect Thai exports of cars and integrated circuits, said Mr Jitipol, adding that food shipments are not expected to be affected by Brexit.

more here Bangkokpost
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Offline thaiga

Re: plunge in the sterling predicted if Britain votes to leave the EU
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2016, 02:23:07 PM »
George Soros predicts Brexit 'Black Friday'

 Billionaire George Soros, who famously profited by betting against the pound in a 1992 currency crisis, has predicted a plunge in the sterling if Britain votes to leave the European Union.

The business magnate forecast an even steeper drop than occurred on "Black Wednesday", which forced Britain to withdraw from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, in an article in the Guardian newspaper published late Monday.

"If Britain leaves the EU it will have at least one very clear and immediate effect that will touch every household: the value of the pound would decline precipitously," the 85-year-old wrote.

He estimated a drop for the currency of at least 15%.

"Then ironically one pound would be worth about one euro –- a method of 'joining the euro' that nobody in Britain would want," Soros added.

The pro-Brexit side have accused "Remain" campaigners of scare tactics by arguing that a vote to leave the EU on Thursday would damage Britain's economy.

Soros warned that leaving the EU would lower house prices and cause job losses, potentially causing a recession.

One of the world's richest men according to Forbes magazine, Soros warned that powerful "speculative forces" would be "eager to exploit any miscalculations by the British government or British voters".

"A vote for Brexit would make some people very rich -– but most voters considerably poorer," Soros wrote.

"A vote to leave could see the week end with a Black Friday, and serious consequences for ordinary people."

After earlier surveys indicated narrow gains for the "Remain" camp, global markets rallied and the pound rose to a three-month peak.

But the latest polls published ahead of the June 23 vote suggest the result could go either way.

Bangkokpost
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Online Taman Tun

Interesting headline in the Guardian today:- David Beckham supports Remain.  Well, Whoopee doo.  Personally, I do not think the country has much future either in or out.  I suspect most people on this forum came to a similar conclusion long ago and I made my own personal Brexit about 15 years back.  Aside from the Beckham story there is an interesting Guardian story about a report on corruption by Transparency International.  Here is a short extract which says it all:-

This has led Transparency International itself to label the City of London the world’s “number-one home for the fruits of corruption”; anti-mafia journalist Robert Saviano believes the practices of the City have transformed the UK into the most corrupt nation on earth. It is impossible to analyse urban corruption in any form without placing London and its financial industry at the heart of the problem. Via its deregulatory impulses and unparalleled influence on the global economic system, London’s financial core has exported the conditions necessary for wide-scale corruption to countless other cities around the planet, while at the same time offering a safe haven for corrupt money that makes the job of tackling urban corruption in all those other cities far more difficult.
We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out. Churchill
 

Offline Aussie

The ANZACS are waiting for the return of their motherland and the wonderful true Brits into the fold of the Commonwealth. The EU has been a disaster and leaving it is a no brainer.
May God bless the Brits.  Your blood brethren, the ANZACS are with you.
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 

Offline thaiga

Re: EU referendum: UK goes to the polls
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2016, 02:10:45 PM »
EU referendum: UK goes to the polls

Polls have opened in a historic referendum on whether the UK should remain a member of the European Union or leave.

An estimated 46,499,537 people are entitled to take part in the vote - a record number for a UK poll.

Polling stations opened at 07:00 BST and will close at 22:00 BST.

It is only the third nationwide referendum in UK history and comes after a four-month battle for votes between the Leave and Remain campaigns.

In common with other broadcasters, the BBC is limited in what it can report while polls are open but you can follow the results as they come in across the BBC after polls close on Thursday evening.

The referendum ballot paper asks the following question: "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

Whichever side gets more than half of all votes cast is considered to have won.

The weather forecast for polling day is mixed.

There have been thunderstorms in London and south-east England which caused flooding overnight.

Sunshine and heavy showers are forecast for Northern Ireland and Scotland but it is set to be drier and brighter elsewhere.

After the referendum polls close, sealed ballot boxes will be collected and transported to the count venue for each of the 382 local counting areas.

These represent all 380 local government areas in England, Scotland and Wales, plus one each for Northern Ireland and Gibraltar.

Individual areas' results will then be declared throughout the night, along with results from 11 regional counts.

Depending on how close the poll is, the result may become clear before the final national result is officially declared by the Chief Counting Officer, who will be based at Manchester Town Hall.

The Electoral Commission estimates a final result "around breakfast time" on Friday.

bbc.com
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Value of pensions for British expats in question
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2016, 10:42:10 AM »
If you could have changed your GBP savings to THB yesterday, you would have got a decent exchange rate of about 52 THB per GBP. Now you can only hope to get it changed at one of the top swings, which move roughly between 46 and 48.

If a country is as divided at an important question as REMAIN and EXIT,  only those are winners who know how to speculate the exchange rates like George Soros. How much will he gain of it again? And how many expats will have to do visa runs again, because the conversion of their pensions does not fulfill immigration requirements for the annual extension any longer?

Quote
Pound tumbles to lows not seen since 1985

The value of the pound has fallen dramatically as it emerged that the UK had voted to leave the EU.

At one stage, it hit $1.3305, a fall of more than 10%, and a low not seen since 1985.

The Bank of England said it was "monitoring developments closely" and would take "all necessary steps" to support monetary stability.

Before the results started to come in, the pound had risen as high as $1.50, as traders bet on a Remain victory.

But following early strong Leave votes in north-east England, it tumbled to $1.43 and then took another dive after 03:00 BST as Leave maintained its lead.

The move in sterling is the biggest one-day fall ever seen and London's main share index, the FTSE 100, is expected to open sharply lower, with indications of a fall of about 7%.

A weaker pound buys fewer dollars or other foreign currencies, which makes it more expensive to buy products from abroad. However, it should benefit exporters as it makes their goods cheaper abroad.

Against the euro, the pound dropped 7% to about €1.2085.

The euro also fell 3.3% against the dollar, its biggest one-day fall since the currency's inception.

Currency traders say these moves are more extreme than those seen during the financial crisis of 2008.

"Never seen anything like it. These are once-in-a-lifetime moves, bigger than Lehmans and Black Wednesday," said Joe Rundle, head of trading at ETX Capital.

"We're waiting for the big money to crank into action over the coming days and even weeks, which will likely exert further downward pressure on sterling."

Around midnight, sterling had risen to $1.50 after leading Leave campaigner Nigel Farage said it looked as though Remain had "edged" the vote.

But those gains were short-lived as the first results showed surprisingly strong votes to leave the EU.

As for shares, the markets are pointing to a 8% slump when the FTSE 100 opens on Friday.

"The Bank of England is monitoring developments closely," the Bank said in a statement.

"It has undertaken extensive contingency planning and is working closely with HM Treasury, other domestic authorities and overseas central banks. The Bank of England will take all necessary steps to meet its responsibilities for monetary and financial stability."
'Nervous moves'

In Tokyo, the Nikkei 225 share index has fallen by more than 8%, with the yen up 5% as investors piled into the Japanese currency, which is seen as a safe haven.

The Bank of Japan (BoJ) said it stood ready to supply money to the markets if necessary.

"The BoJ, in close co-operation with relevant domestic and foreign authorities, will continue to carefully monitor how the [UK referendum] would affect global financial markets," the Bank's governor, Haruhiko Kuroda, said in a statement.

Japan's finance minister, Taro Aso, said he was ready to respond to movements on the currency market if necessary to prevent "extremely nervous moves".

A increase in the value of the Japanese yen hurts the country's exporting companies.

In commodities, the price of gold jumped nearly 7% to $1,348.27 an ounce.


BBC.com

Edit 1:25 pm: Quote updated
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Offline thaiga

I exchanged 50% of my assets in the uk to thai bht a little while ago, got just under 51 to the pound.

yes what about those guys that depend on their pension rates to cover their immigration requirements to do the annual extension, not a lot of people see this one coming, shouting from the rooftops leave the EU (inc myself)

So do we change our tune now to in in in ... Expats have been battered one way or another for a long time, wonder if the thai authorities will give any lee way. :-[

todays rates @ bangkokbank

                       buying       selling

USD: 50-100      34.90      35.77    

United Kingdom   45.93    48.86    

Euro Zone           37.87    39.57    
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline thaiga

from the Bangkokpost

Dutch anti-immigration leader Geert Wilders called on Friday for a referendum on the Netherlands' membership in the European Union after Britain voted to leave the 28-member bloc.

Mr Wilders, who is leading opinion polls, said if he is elected prime minister in March general elections in the Netherlands he too will call a referendum.

"We want be in charge of our own country, our own money, our own borders, and our own immigration policy"

Next steps for EU after Brexit

After Britain voted to leave the European Union, the next hours, days and weeks will be crucial for the future of the bloc.

Here are the next steps after Brexit:

SAVE THE MARKETS

With the stability of the global economy at risk, early Friday the European Central Bank is widely expected to make a statement to reassure markets.

TOP EU OFFICIALS REACT

The EU's top officials meet in Brussels at 10.30am on Friday.

EU President Donald Tusk, European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker, European Parliament head Martin Schulz and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, whose country holds the six-month EU presidency, are expected to make a statement and address the press at around midday.

MINISTERS TACKLE BREXIT

The EU's 28 European Affairs Ministers meet in Luxembourg to lay the groundwork for Brexit talks at the EU summit on June 28-29. 

GERMAN SOLUTIONS

Foreign ministers from the EU's six founding countries -- France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg -- are expected to meet on Saturday in Berlin, according to European sources.

French President Francois Hollande will meet with German Chancellor Angela Merkel next week to discuss "European initiatives", expected on Monday.

FRANCO-GERMAN INITIATIVE

The Merkel Hollande meet-up could be the occasion to announce plans for a long-rumoured Franco-German initiative on a better integrated defence and security strategy for Europe.

The leaders are seeking to use the plan to dispel doubts on the EU project unleashed by the British vote campaign.

BRUSSELS ACTS

On Monday the European Commission's top officials, who are nominated by the EU's 28 member states, begin mapping out the long road to an official Brexit at an extraordinary meeting in Brussels.

MEPs have also called for an extraordinary session of the European Parliament to be held in Brussels on Monday in the case of a Brexit vote.

THE 'BREXIT' SUMMIT

The 28 EU leaders -- still including British Prime Minister David Cameron -- meet on June 28 and 29 in Brussels to digest and debate the results of Thursday's Leave vote.

It was originally due to be held on June 23 but was postponed after the British referendum date was announced.

Cameron may trigger Article 50 of the EU's Lisbon Treaty, officially notifying EU leaders of Britain's intention to leave.

ENTER SLOVAKIA

On July 1st, the Netherlands hands over the EU's six-month rotating presidency to the relatively inexperienced Slovakia, which now must lead the negotiations towards Brexit.

Britain had been due to take the helm at the end of 2017 but will now give that up.

CRUEL SUMMER

EU civil servants delay summer holidays to begin the painstaking legal work to bring about Brexit. The official British divorce from Europe would take at least two years.

But EU president Donald Tusk has warned that the whole process of negotiating trade and immigration deals with a non-EU Britain could take seven years in all.

Bangkokpost
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Offline Johnnie F.

Next "good" news:

Brexit: David Cameron to quit after UK votes to leave EU

Now who'll be able to

Average White Band - Pick Up The Pieces


Boris Johnson? Hardly!

And what will the Northern Irish and Scottish have of it? Independence maybe?

not a lot of people see this one coming, shouting from the rooftops leave the EU


It was all over the international press last few days, last Monday in the Guardian for example, that just the infamous George Soros warned of a "Black Friday" in case of a BREXIT vote: "The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned ". But who could listen to a "carpetbagger" like him?

Quote
"We're waiting for the big money to crank into action over the coming days and even weeks, which will likely exert further downward pressure on sterling."


As the Euro also has been dragged down some by that, all will hope on the much hated ECB to help and dampen the international impact, I guess. The Commonwealth won't be able, I think.

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Offline Johnnie F.

A chance to rethink?

Petition: EU Referendum Rules Triggering a Second EU Referendum

The 48% of voters who wished to Remain in the European Union are so mortified by the Leave result that a parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum has been set up.

‘We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum,’ it reads.

At the time of writing, the petition is difficult to access, presumably due to a surge of traffic. The count is at 55,000 right now and climbing at roughly a thousand signatures a minute.

All petitions to the site that receive over 100,000 signatures must be considered for debate in Parliament, as was the case with the cannabis legalisation one.

Update 9:04am: petition.parliament.uk completely inaccessible.

Independent
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Offline Aussie

I'll bet the Chelsea Premier League champions of 2014/15 were mortified that Leicester City  won the Premier League title in 2015/2016 in one of the greatest sporting results. If we can get enough signatures to ask for  a replay of Leicester City's games maybe we can get the result we want.  But of course if we do get a referendum and win it, whats stopping the opposition for applying for another referendum to change it all back again and so on and so on for infinity.  Spoilt babies crying over not getting what they wanted.  Shame on these people who are unable to abide by the rule of the referee via the ballet box.
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 
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Offline Johnnie F.

It was extremely naive of Cameron not to set a quorum of 75% participation and a 2/3 majority for a valid result in this highly important matter affecting the whole world to get at least half the voice of the electorate deciding. Neither Johnson asked for that. Both are not qualified to lead Britain and the world out of this man-made crisis. The EU will survive without Britain and not suffer huge losses, but Britain won't become any "greater", but more likely smaller now.

Attempts from Geert Wilders in the Netherlands or Marine Le Pen in France to follow the example neither will make the world any better.

But clever business people playing the stock and money exchange will gain riches; workers and pensioners mainly in Britain and also to some extent in the EU will have to pay the price!
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 
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Offline Aussie

Hello Johnnie F.- There were no percentage thresholds used for the first referendum for the United Kingdom EC referendum of 5 June 1975. It was the side with the most votes to win, as it was for this referendum. At the time the electorate expressed significant support for EEC membership, with 67% in favour on a 65% turnout. So the rules used then are the same rules used for this 2016 referendum.
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 

Offline Johnnie F.

That's no reason to repeat a mistake, since it hardly were the same people voting in the same context. But as you might have understood from my previous posts, I personally am pretty unaffected. Germany or my pension won't suffer great losses. ;)

The last time I set foot on that island was in 1986, and I don't see need going there again in my lifetime.  :)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Aussie

Hello Johnnie F - Perhaps the first outcome in 1975 was a mistake?  Perhaps joining the EU was the greatest  mistake? No mistakes were made at either time as both sides knew the rules.  The opposition who lost in the 1975 referendum didn't cry over the results or gather a petition to have the vote taken again.
The side with the most votes wins.  It's as simple as that. I have great faith and optimism for the Brits.  I hope time will make it so.
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Maybe it was a mistake; I can't tell; at that time I knew a few young Brits, who had come over to Germany to seek their fortunes. In 1974 I was visiting Britain for the first time. Of course I was impressed by it being differently, by the popular culture, that could spread in Britain rather freely, while in Germany it was still suppressed by conservative forces, young people still trying to overcome the shackle of WW2 and gain their own identity for young Germans. Britain was FREEDOM for me at that time. That there could be even more FREEDOM I saw the following year, when I went to the US for the first time. Now Germany has developed into almost as much FREEDOM already. Britain appears more like having stood in the rain since then.

It's a natural process, that people become older, sometimes even more mature, by the time. That's why more younger people expressed their intentions to vote REMAIN than older people. But voting for BREXIT or REMAIN wasn't merely a question of reversing the 1975 decision, since not only the electorate but all circumstances have changed in the meantime. It was a decision about it's future, and that needs to get more careful consideration by the people affected, the young people. I hope the petition to be successful.

If one makes a mistake, he has two options: reversing the mistake or making the best of it.
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Aussie

Hello Johnnie F - I hope the petition fails because if it doesn't then a civil war with blood in the streets and in the homes may be the result.  The people have spoken via the ballot box.  The future concerns all Brits young and old and we wouldn't be in this current position if we hadn't joined the EU in the first place.  Yes, times have changed for the worse and something had to be done to reverse this trend.  Another petition for another referendum is certainly divisive and dangerous. The people have spoken and reversed the first mistake and opted out of the EU.  Britain will prevail and is now on the right track.  As your own words testify, Britain has stood in the rain since then (1975).  They stood in the rain under a ripped umbrella provided by the faceless unelected bureaucrats in Brussels and were given the privilege of doing so at the rate of 55 million pounds a day. 
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 

Offline Johnnie F.

As I said before: "If one makes a mistake, he has two options: reversing the mistake or making the best of it." Cameron tried to make the best by negotiating with and exerting influence on Brussels, just not successfully. Instead of trying to deliver valid and acceptable arguments he reached for the BREXIT "argument". It backfired! He shouldn't have given up trying to negotiate, and attempting "blackmail" instead. It's for others to suffer now. Sorting out the mess will take years anyway; who knows what will be next? Gibraltar, who voted 96% against BREXIT, doesn't want to be part of the "Ununited Kingdom" anymore, their lives are based on relations to Spain. It's a question of survival for them. Will Britain be able to compensate? Most likely not!

So do Scotland (62% against BREXIT)and Northern Ireland (55.7% against BREXIT). Do you think those people will enjoy the English forcing them to give up what they built their lives on? And in London, the mighty metropolis, 59.9% didn't want BREXIT, either. Do you think there only would be a civil war, if the mistake gets corrected? Britain faces hard times!

London is the center of Britain like Bangkok is the center of Thailand. The London elite will defend what they see as their right, what they built their lives on, like the Bangkok elite does, when the peasants of Isaan rise.
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Was it a DDOS-attack of BREXIT-supporters, or just too many Brits feeling that things went totally wrong with the referendum?

Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Aussie

As I said before: "If one makes a mistake, he has two options: reversing the mistake or making the best of it." Cameron tried to make the best by negotiating with and exerting influence on Brussels, just not successfully. Instead of trying to deliver valid and acceptable arguments he reached for the BREXIT "argument". It backfired! He shouldn't have given up trying to negotiate, and attempting "blackmail" instead. It's for others to suffer now. Sorting out the mess will take years anyway; who knows what will be next? Gibraltar, who voted 96% against BREXIT, doesn't want to be part of the "Ununited Kingdom" anymore, their lives are based on relations to Spain. It's a question of survival for them. Will Britain be able to compensate? Most likely not!

So do Scotland (62% against BREXIT)and Northern Ireland (55.7% against BREXIT). Do you think those people will enjoy the English forcing them to give up what they built their lives on? And in London, the mighty metropolis, 59.9% didn't want BREXIT, either. Do you think there only would be a civil war, if the mistake gets corrected? Britain faces hard times!

London is the center of Britain like Bangkok is the center of Thailand. The London elite will defend what they see as their right, what they built their lives on, like the Bangkok elite does, when the peasants of Isaan rise.

Johnnie F. If those areas do not want to be part of the UK  it would be wise to let them go and let them choose their own future destiny.  It is rather that simple. Why struggle with an Albatross tied to ones neck when they want to be free and not subject to domination by others?
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 

Offline Aussie

Was it a DDOS-attack of BREXIT-supporters, or just too many Brits feeling that things went totally wrong with the referendum?
Johnnie F.- I would guess that the cry babies who didn't get their way are responsible for their own feelings.  What went totally wrong with the referendum, for them, is that they lost. Get over it and embrace  the challenge to make England great again. England has a wonderful and prosperous future. God bless the true Brits.
As a German, what is your agenda in promoting the EU?
Regards
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you’re a mile away and have their shoes
 

 



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