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Main Discussion Board => General Discussions => Home: Britain => Topic started by: Taman Tun on April 08, 2013, 07:05:36 PM

Title: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 08, 2013, 07:05:36 PM
Sadly she has passed away.  The greatest Prime Minister of all time. 
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: thaiga on April 08, 2013, 07:27:28 PM

from grocer's daughter to MP   R.I.P.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/8075964/Margaret-Thatcher-dies-from-grocers-daughter-to-MP.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/8075964/Margaret-Thatcher-dies-from-grocers-daughter-to-MP.html)
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 08, 2013, 08:04:26 PM
I admired her when she was in office but when I worked out what she was up to, I changed my mind. She continued the work started by Wilson, systematically destroying British industry and coal and ore extraction. Perhaps it was a requirement of the EU.

Anyway, RIP.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 08, 2013, 08:14:19 PM
OK Saf, but I thought it was Arthur Scargill who destroyed the  coal industry and Red Robbo who destroyed the motor industry.  Wislon was almost certainly a communist agent.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 08, 2013, 08:32:59 PM
Wilson allowed the unions to run riot. According to is official biography, he sat back while they gained strength and use it irresponsibly. Thatcher used the union power as a front for finally killing off big industry. She also, by encouraging people to borrow money to extend their homes or buy bigger ones when property prices were increasing. When the property market crashed, many lost their equity, homes and jobs.

I could easily believe that Scargill and Thatcher were working together to kill of the coal mining industry. As far as I recall, Red Robbo wasn't a union man. In any case, the unions there were willing to help Thatcher achieve her goals.

She was a very nasty woman.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 08, 2013, 08:38:15 PM
Wow Saf, Thatcher and Scargill working together. Now that is an interesting conspiracy theory!  Am just watching the coverage on CNN..just terrible..CNN seems to have employed a whole bunch of ex BBC lefties.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 08, 2013, 08:39:55 PM
By 'lefties', do you mean left handed people or people who hold an opinion different from your own?
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 08, 2013, 08:54:37 PM
My broad brush definition of lefties is those who have little or no connection with a life in which you have to earn money in the real commercial world.  Typically lefties are in favour of welfare for all paid for from the taxes of hard working people.   They are also strident in trying to ram the bogus concept of "global warming" down people's throats, not to mention homosexual marriage. Just watching the latest on CNN. Tony Benn sprouting a load of coglioni.  Really sickmaking. 
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 08, 2013, 09:19:55 PM
My broad brush definition of lefties is those who have little or no connection with a life in which you have to earn money in the real commercial world.  Typically lefties are in favour of welfare for all paid for from the taxes of hard working people.   They are also strident in trying to ram the bogus concept of "global warming" down people's throats, not to mention homosexual marriage. Just watching the latest on CNN. Tony Benn sprouting a load of coglioni.  Really sickmaking.

 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 09, 2013, 08:29:22 AM
Hello TT and others. I've been away but would like to add my own views, if it's not too late.
Your comment about MT being the greatest PM of all time is ludicrous. Before the Falklands, she was polling as the most unpopular PM of all time.
MT was right to stand up the Trade Unions and the EEC, but otherwise she was a disaster. She didn't seem to think Industry was important at all and we all still pay the price for that particular idiocy. I worked in Falmouth in those years and remember 8 out the 10 of the largest Companies retrenching or closing down due to her policies,so many of which were divisive and deeply harmful to the UK.
My late Father attended many meetings with her when she was Minister of Education, and at that stage he was a great admirer. But, when she became PM he was soon talking of her being dangerous, undemocratic and harmful. I watched Geoffrey Howe's resignation speech in the Commons with some joy, as he at last, felt it right to draw the curtain.

I agree with SAF, a very nasty woman indeed ! RIP
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 09, 2013, 08:52:36 AM
And TT - your broad brush definition of 'lefties' ? You plonker !
As it happens, I am a 'leftie' and proud of it.
That doesn't mean that I believe in a rampant benefit culture - I don't. Winter fuel allowances, child benefit etc. should be for those on the lowest means only - actually I am stunned that the Tories have been so weak in making benefit cuts. I believe that Folks shouldn't have kids when they can't afford to look after them. So trying to be a 'practical' socialist, IMO a country should only pay the benefits it can afford.
Also IMO, the massive disparity in net incomes which has arisen in the last decades is a really destructive and divisive issue in Society and I hope, that when your soppy Tories get thrown out, as seems inevitable, a new Govt can at last address this scandal.
And by the way, IMO Tony Benn talks more sense in a day than some people like yourself do in a year - as did John Smith, Robin Cook, Roy Jenkins and many many other left thinking people of great intellect and stature.



Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 09, 2013, 09:08:33 AM
Saf - without agreeing with TT that Wilson was a communist agent, LOL, Wilson did allow Union power to grow in an unrealistic way. Red Robbo didn't destroy the motor industry - that was years and years of weak and short sighted Management in the face of Union power and foolish attitudes. Michael Edwardes (who I met several times), came along and did a much better job of managing BL but it was really too late by then.
What's sickmaking, is Bankers salaries and bonuses, entrenched privilege in Public service, disparities in 'net' incomes and a lack of work for those who want to build a life for themselves, etc. etc.. I always think a roof over your head is a fairly basic commodity and yet we are not organised so that is a reasonably attainable prospect.
MT RIP but ..........
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 09, 2013, 09:23:37 AM
And TT - your broad brush definition of 'lefties' ? You plonker !
As it happens, I am a 'leftie' and proud of it.
That doesn't mean that I believe in a rampant benefit culture - I don't. Winter fuel allowances, child benefit etc. should be for those on the lowest means only - actually I am stunned that the Tories have been so weak in making benefit cuts. I believe that Folks shouldn't have kids when they can't afford to look after them. So trying to be a 'practical' socialist, IMO a country should only pay the benefits it can afford.
Also IMO, the massive disparity in net incomes which has arisen in the last decades is a really destructive and divisive issue in Society and I hope, that when your soppy Tories get thrown out, as seems inevitable, a new Govt can at last address this scandal.
And by the way, IMO Tony Benn talks more sense in a day than some people like yourself do in a year - as did John Smith, Robin Cook, Roy Jenkins and many many other left thinking people of great intellect and stature.

I avoid labelling my politic and social opinions as left, right, Socialist or Tory. My opinions have chnaged and developed over the years and I believe what I think is right, irrespective of the political colour of those beliefs.

I used to regard Tony Benn as a dangerous Communist.I don't know whether I have changed or he has but, latterly,I have found myself very much in agreement with what he says.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: thaiga on April 09, 2013, 12:23:07 PM
I worked in Falmouth in those years and remember 8 out the 10 of the largest Companies retrenching or closing down

A bit like today :-[
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher ♦ Thai TV station red-faced after Thatcher-Streep gaffe
Post by: thaiga on April 09, 2013, 05:49:14 PM
Former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher passed away on Monday at the age of 87 and with the passing of a historical figure like her, the mechanisms of the media go into full swing as her political legacies are discussed with either passion or loathing (while social media discussed whether or not the etiquette-based courtesy should be better dropped).

Of course, the Thai mainstream also runs its tributes and obituaries. However, when people tuned into the army-owned Channel 5 for the news on the death of Thatcher – they saw this:

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/76/thatcherstreepfront_imagesia-com_76z7_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/thatcherstreepfront_76z7)
A screenshot of a news program on Thailand's Channel 5 showing actress Meryl Streep as former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher instead of the real recently deceased Thatcher. (Picture by Nopadol Prompasit/Facebook)

Yes, this is NOT the late Thatcher but rather US actress Meryl Streep portraying her in the 2011 movie The Iron Lady. After one viewer snapped a screenshot of this and posted it on Facebook, a flood of schadenfreude was poured onto Channel 5 by Thai netizens.

Obviously, this was the result of a quick Google picture search and taking the next best picture that showed up. But it does beg the question whether or not this will be the last time that a TV newsroom will make such a (admittedly hilarious) mistake and confuse the real world figures with the actors playing them – we probably can expect to see future mix-ups like Hellen Mirren as Queen Elizabeth II or Morgan Freeman as Nelson Mandela!

But let’s not go too hard on the Thai media. The BBC had a howler of its own on Monday afternoon:

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/76/thatcherbbcgaffe_imagesia-com_76za_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/thatcherbbcgaffe_76za)
Screenshot of BBC blunder announcing Margaret Thatcher had died of a 'strike'. Pic via @heardinlondon, Twitter.

P.S.: One could argue that a picture shown on CNN with Thatcher standing next to late BBC personality and now notorious Jimmy Saville isn’t much better either…


Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 09, 2013, 06:02:47 PM
I have just been checking the newspapers and saw all the details regarding the street parties.  What a disgusting, degenerate scurvy crew.
Title: Re: Taiwan TV shows queen in reports on Thatcher death
Post by: thaiga on April 09, 2013, 07:02:07 PM
TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) — A Taiwanese news station has apologized for airing footage of Queen Elizabeth II while reporting the death of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.

    (http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/77/taiwanthatcherqueengaffe1_imagesia-com_772t_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/taiwanthatcherqueengaffe1_772t)

CTi Cable flashed a headline of “Margaret Thatcher Dies of Stroke” and showed two clips of the queen shaking hands with the public. The station apologized Monday night after viewers criticized the station for failing to distinguish between the women.

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/77/490018_imagesia-com_772k_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/490018_772k)
People gather during a 'party' to celebrate the death of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in London, on April 8

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher ♦ Thai TV station red-faced after Thatcher-Streep gaffe
Post by: Johnnie F. on April 09, 2013, 07:09:44 PM
But let’s not go too hard on the Thai media. The BBC had a howler of its own on Monday afternoon:

([url]http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/76/thatcherbbcgaffe_imagesia-com_76za_large.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://imagesia.com/thatcherbbcgaffe_76za[/url])
Screenshot of BBC blunder announcing Margaret Thatcher had died of a 'strike'. Pic via @heardinlondon, Twitter.


She was "stricken by a cerebrovascular accident" (stroke), blood circulation in her brain refused to work. So, it wasn't a blunder to say she had died of a strike.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 09, 2013, 07:35:38 PM
I have just been checking the newspapers and saw all the details regarding the street parties.  What a disgusting, degenerate scurvy crew.

 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Johnnie F. on April 09, 2013, 07:44:35 PM
I have just been checking the newspapers and saw all the details regarding the street parties.  What a disgusting, degenerate scurvy crew.

I agree, you really gotta feel sorry for all the degeneration she caused people to undergo, feel sorry for all these middle-class who became poor, and most of all feel sorry for those who can't enjoy life anymore, because they're forced to keep on multiplying their fortunes now. ;)
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 09, 2013, 09:11:28 PM
Hi again TT.
Just seen your comments about the 'Street Parties'............
(I didn't understand the replies of Johnnie and Saf).
IMO, if criminal acts are committed during the partying, those responsible should be prosecuted - end of.
But they should be allowed to party if they choose to, bad taste or not.
Unfortunately, in the UK now, (MT helped to create what we have), there are some sections of society reflecting the divisive nature of her Government. In a way, part of her legacy ?
ATB
Title: Re: 'Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead' could reach number one
Post by: thaiga on April 10, 2013, 12:38:38 PM
Lady Thatcher’s death could propel The Wizard Of Oz track "Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead to the top of the charts.

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/77/v2-dorothy_imagesia-com_77or_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/v2-dorothy_77or)

Those who saw her death as a cause for celebration have prompted a download surge for the track.

Within 24 hours of the former Prime Minister’s death, the song had risen to number 9 in the iTunes best-sellers chart. It reached number 2 on the Amazon singles download chart.

Sales figures for Monday, released by the Official Charts Company, showed that the song had already made it to number 54 in the rundown used by Radio 1.

It is expected to climb higher as a result of a Facebook campaign being set up to encourage sales.

Another performance of the song by Ella Fitzgerald stood at 146 in the Official Chart and one by the Munchkins is at 183. If sales of the three versions had been combined it would be selling strongly enough to be at number 40.

The Facebook group, encouraging people to download the "Witch" song to get it to number one, already had 664 members and was originally set up back in July 2007. The song was written by EY Harburg and composed by Harold Arlen and featured in the 1939 film The Wizard of Oz.

A song specifically written to attack Lady Thatcher, "Tramp The Dirt Down" by Elvis Costello, also rose to 79 on the iTunes chart.

Respect MP George Galloway tweeted the title of the 1988 song, which includes the lyrics: “When they finally put you in the ground, they’ll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down.”

Entrepreneurial fashion outlets were quick to cash in on the death. One boutique in Shoreditch, east London, placed T-shirts featuring Warhol-style portraits of Lady Thatcher in its window.

The Redbubble online clothing store was selling black and white T-shirts featuring a stark portrait of the politician with the word “DEAD” below, for £15.

However there appears to be a limit to the public appetite for all things Thatcher-related. A peak-time BBC1 90-minute obituary, narrated by Andrew Marr and broadcast on Monday night, attracted fewer than 3 million viewers. News bulletins providing blanket coverage of the death failed to record a viewing rise.

Britain’s first female Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher died at the Ritz hotel in London on Monday following a stroke. She was 87.

independent.co.uk
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Johnnie F. on April 10, 2013, 01:13:19 PM
The Wicked Witch Is Dead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jn8K8EA7-Q#)
Title: Re: police fear Thatcher funeral may turn into security nightmare
Post by: thaiga on April 10, 2013, 02:14:36 PM
Fears of civil disorder in capital as plans are revealed for partially state-funded ceremonial funeral. Meanwhile lawyers warn against pre-emptive arrests as police scan social media to identify likely protesters

(http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article8566462.ece/ALTERNATES/w460/web-thatcher-rust-ap.jpg)

Police officers are monitoring social media, internet forums and BlackBerry messaging networks in the expectation that Margaret Thatcher's funeral procession next Wednesday will be targeted by protesters.

The possibility of demonstrations during the funeral has raised concerns that police may adopt the controversial tactic of making pre-emptive arrests.

Plans appear to be under way for different groups to demonstrate during the funeral, and to hold celebrations around the country on the same day.

Police concerns have been fuelled by the impromptu street parties which broke out on Monday evening in Leeds, Bristol, Brixton, Liverpool and Glasgow – some of which resulted in arrests after clashes with officers.

Police and security-service planning for Baroness Thatcher's funeral has been under way for three and a half years. Officers will probably be required to line the route from the Houses of Parliament to St Paul's Cathedral to make sure that the cortège is not stopped.

The protests present a logistical headache for the Metropolitan Police, whose officers will have to make sure the procession is not disrupted while respecting the public's right to voice an opinion on one of Britain's most divisive politicians.

A Met spokesman said: "London's police, the MPS, City of London and British Transport Police are working together to deliver a security operation for Baroness Thatcher's funeral. Given the nature of the event, our operation will use of a range of appropriate tactics." The Met's first large-scale challenge is likely to be handling anti-Thatcher protests this Saturday evening in Trafalgar Square – a part of London associated with the moment the former Prime Minister's power began to crumble as poll tax protests turned violent.

The Met has made "pre-emptive" arrests in recent years after gathering intelligence about high-profile demonstrations – most notably before the Royal Wedding in 2011. Scores of people were detained in its run-up.

Some of those arrested took their case to the High Court which ruled that, on the facts of the individual cases, the arrests were lawful. An appeal is set to take place this summer. At the time of the original case one of the arguments police used to justify the arrests was that they aimed to protect minority protesters from angry crowds.

Daniel, a 26-year-old from south London who was at Monday night's Brixton protest and is helping to organise something similar for Saturday evening, told The Independent: "There's never been an event with such a publicity run-up. At Brixton, the samba band and a sound system just turned up. Something similar will happen on Saturday. People will come and there'll be a few portable sound systems there."

He believed protests would only turn violent if the police tried to stop people voicing their opinion. "It would be unwise of the police to come down hard," he said. "Even a heavy police presence will provoke a reaction."

The legislation that allows for pre-emptive arrests is narrow and human rights lawyers have warned against any pre-funeral sweeps.

Michael Oswald, from Bhatt Murphy solicitors, which represented 15 people who were arrested during the Royal Wedding, said: "There must be a concern that the events that took place in Bristol and Brixton will be used by the police to justify the kind of tactics that were seen in the run-up to and during the Royal Wedding.

"Whatever one thinks about the rights and wrongs of protesting during a funeral, the law protects people's freedom to voice their opinions publicly in a peaceful manner."

Politicians from across the political spectrum urged members of the public who disliked Lady Thatcher or her politics to show restraint. Tony Blair said: "Even if you disagree with someone very strongly – particularly at the moment of their passing – you should show some respect." When asked if he was worried there would be similar celebrations when he dies, he said: "When you decide, you divide. I think she would be pretty philosophical about it and I hope I will be too."

The Tory MP Conor Burns, a regular visitor of Lady Thatcher, said she would have been pleased by the reaction. "Funnily enough the parties that we're seeing, the things in some of these mining communities and those young people opening the champagne in Glasgow – they're a remarkable tribute to her," he said.

"I remember telling her about the TUC Congress selling the Thatcher 'death party packs'. She said the fact that they felt so strongly about her more than 20 years after she left Downing Street was a tribute to the fact she had done something in politics rather than simply been someone."

Martin McGuinness, Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister, said people should "resist celebrating", adding: "She was not a peacemaker but it is a mistake to allow her death to poison our minds."

Former miners in Easington, Co Durham, will mark the 20 years since their pit closed with a party on the day of her funeral. Alan Cummings, chairman of the Durham Miners' Association, said the timing of the events was "remarkable" and "one of those quirks", adding: "She couldn't be cremated on a better day."

He added: "We are inviting ex-miners and their families to go back over their memories of the strike and what has happened since the closure of the pit. I couldn't stand her. She had a very patronising manner and I could have put my foot through the television whenever I saw her on there.

"We opposed and hated everything she did. She has wrecked thousands and thousands of lives so, no, it's not in poor taste. We can understand why people are happy and rejoicing that she has gone because they remember these communities have never recovered."



Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 10, 2013, 04:16:09 PM
Personally, I think  that any criticism of Baroness Thatcher is two notches above Lese Majeste.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher ♦ Calls made for Trafalgar Square statue
Post by: thaiga on April 10, 2013, 04:28:53 PM

Calls for a statue of Lady Thatcher to be erected on the empty fourth plinth of Trafalgar Square were criticised by Falklands veteran Simon Weston, who warned it could become a target for protests.

Commander John Muxworthy, a Lt Commander on the SS Canberra during the Falklands War, said there should be a permanent public memorial, and that it should be next to Nelson "to recognise that she was at the heart of the nation".

Ukip leader Nigel Farage and Lord Tebbit also said they were in favour. Mr Weston said a statue would be "fitting" but he warned of the "reaction of the foolhardy".

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 10, 2013, 04:32:00 PM
Two notches ? That many ?
Enjoyed your divisive cartoon and Thaiga's 'Rust in peace' LOL
Though I am definitely not a Maggie supporter, I have been surprised at the widespread delight on her demise.
But the rioters are just criminals - nothing at all to do with the left or socialism.
I'm not in favour of a statue in Trafalgar Square btw.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 10, 2013, 04:51:28 PM

But the rioters are just criminals - nothing at all to do with the left or socialism.


But Roger, they are your Fellow Travellers.
Title: Re: Lefties spewing bile about Lady Thatcher
Post by: thaiga on April 10, 2013, 09:15:27 PM
Crawling out of the woodwork, the old Lefties spewing bile about Lady Thatcher

In the short time since Lady Thatcher’s death, critics, enemies and former opponents have poured out a relentless stream of vitriol about her. Here is a selection which reflects poorly on the authors:

STEVE BELL: The Guardian cartoonist showed Mrs Thatcher in a burning tomb saying: 'Why is this pit still open?' Her words, a reference to the coal mines which closed in the 1980s, are delivered to a weeping David Cameron and George Osborne. His trademark is to draw Mr Cameron with a condom on his head and Mr Osborne in bondage gear. A third wailing figure resembles Cabinet Minister Oliver Letwin.

By his signature on the cartoon, Bell wrote 'after Gustave Doré' – the 19th-century French artist who illustrated Dante's masterpiece of the Middle Ages, The Divine Comedy, which begins with the Inferno, a description of his journey through Hell.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306589-19334795000005DC-521_634x472.jpg)
Steve Bell's controversial cartoon about Margaret Thatcher's death

THE COMMENTS FOR T/T

ANNE SCARGILL: Ex-wife of former NUM leader Arthur Scargill, said: 'She was intent on smashing the trade unions and in it she smashed the country.

'She called us the enemy within. There was only one enemy within and that was her.

'When you think about what's happened yesterday I know it's probably not good but I was really really happy…that woman caused us such distress and upset and here we were fighting for survival, not for a wage increase, and she's just smashed our communities and the woman she what… she weren't a woman she was evil.'

DEREK HATTON: The former Liverpool councillor said: 'The issue isn't about whether she is dead. I regret for the sake of millions of people that she was ever born.'

'She promoted a form of greed in business that we've never known before and it's continued ever since. She actually changed the whole face of this country in a way, that you know, people wouldn't have even anticipated.

'Even her successors got away with murder, literally, for example Blair in Iraq, that they wouldn't have got away with had it not been for what she did.'

ALAN CUMMINGS: The chairman of Durham Miners' Association, said the timing of the events, on the 20th anniversary of their pit closing, was 'remarkable' and 'one of those quirks'.

He said: 'She couldn't be cremated on a better day. We are planning to have a colliery band and we are inviting ex-miners and their families to go back over their memories of the strike and what has happened since the closure of the pit. I couldn't stand her. She had a very patronising manner and I could have put my foot through the television whenever I saw her on there.'

MORRISSEY: The singer tweeted: 'Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the ivory trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own cabinet booted her out.'

JOEY BARTON: The footballer posted: 'I'd say RIP Maggie but it wouldn't be true. If heaven exists that old witch won't be there.'

KEN LOACH: The film director said: 'How should we honour her? Let's privatise her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It's what she would have wanted.'

FRANKIE BOYLE: The comedian tweeted: 'All that Thatcher achieved was to ensure that people living in Garbage Camps a hundred years from now will think that Hitler was a woman.'

IRVINE WELSH: The author wrote: 'So, if u take out Orgreave, destroying communities, Belgrano/Falklands, Hillsborough, protecting nonces, child poverty, Pinochet, she was ok.'

PETER TATCHELL: The gay rights activist tweeted: 'Thatcher was an autocrat. She suppressed miners, civil liberties, inner cities, local government & #LGBT [Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender people]

RUSSELL BRAND: The comedian, in an article in Huffington Post, said: 'If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end there isn't. Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else. There are pangs of nostalgia, yes, because for me she's all tied up with Hi-De-Hi and Speak and Spell and Blockbusters and “follow the bear”.'

ANDY KERSHAW: The former Radio 1 DJ tweeted: 'She was uncaring about the disadvantaged and counted Chile dictator Augusto Pinochet and Jimmy Savile among her friends. To Thatcher, Nelson Mandela was another terrorist. The discord she brought to this country is still deafening.'

MARK STEEL: The comedian wrote: 'What a terrible shame – that it wasn't 87 years earlier.'

ROSS NOBLE: The comedian tweeted: 'Bloody typical that Thatcher dies when I am in  Australia. I hate to miss a good street party.'

ALEX CALLINICOS: Professor of European Studies at King's College, London, and member of the Central Committee of the Socialist Workers Party, he said: 'Murder was Thatcher's business. Sometimes the murder was metaphorical – of industries and communities. It still destroyed people's lives. Sometimes the murder was real. Thatcher over-saw the ongoing dirty war in Ireland.'

ERNESTO ALBERTO ALONSO: The president of the National Committee of Argentine Falklands Veterans said: 'She will be remembered as a leader who brought nothing positive to humanity.'

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 10, 2013, 10:26:13 PM
TT. Those I referred to, earlier, are just as likely to be your fellow travelers, as mine. Maybe more likely.
And Thaiga, these quotes just posted, are not all necessarily old Lefties. Just some of those who disliked Thatcher.
E.g. Joey Barton, Russel Brand - 'old lefties' ? (Who cares what they think anyway?)
Mrs Thatcher had her Admirers and her Detractors, across the political spectrum.
Personally I deplore the gratuitous unkindness now she has passed - they wouldn't have said it to her face I think !
RIP

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 11, 2013, 12:18:29 AM
Nice work, Thaiga.  I could launch into a diatribe about some of these non-entities but I have to go to bed..work in the morning.  Just don't get me started about Peter Tatchell.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 11, 2013, 12:30:47 AM
I think, given the strength of feelings, a statue in Trafalgar Square would get the same treatment as Sadam's in Iraq.

I'm surprised by the volume of angry comments against her but I have to agree with the general view that she was bad for Britain. The outpouring of critical comment shows how strong are feelings in Britain, even after many years. The Establishment should take note of this before offering those out of work today the spectacle of an expensive public funeral. She should have only a private family burial. Mark will be equipped to fire a salute if he so wishes. I think he would because his mother did much to promote his business while she was in office.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 11, 2013, 01:09:22 AM
Saf - I agree about the Trafalgar Square statue - surely not a good idea (and undeserved anyway).
It seems to me that strong feelings come from all across the political spectrum - surprising after so many years.
MT's help to young Mark was not a pretty sight.
The quotes in Thaiga's post are though, largely from a motley crew and I agree with TT about Peter Tatchell certainly.
But MT was IMO, one of the most divisive and one of the worst PM's, of all time.

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 11, 2013, 07:32:15 AM
I agree, Roger.

Much of the comment in support of her refers to her battle with Scargill. I suspect that the two of them had been separately briefed but were working to the same agenda. People should remember, though, that she also attacked the ambulance drivers ( 'No more than bus drivers', or words to that effect) and the firemen. People hold those occupations in as high a regard as they do any other and her vitriolic verbal attacks on them may well have been a turning point in the eyes of many citizens.

Te 'motley crew' have as much right to express their views as anyone else and what they say may have more credibility than her bum lickers' words.

Bliar will probably be the next one for such criticism. Remember that he too rode rough shod over the Cabinet as well as taking Britain into two disastrous conflicts on the orders of Bush and on the bass of a pack of lies.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 11, 2013, 08:36:21 AM
Hi Saf. Yes Blair, having engineered the deception of Parliament and the People in taking us into the second war in Iraq, must rank alongside Maggie as a truly disastrous PM - I had great hopes for him when he was first elected.
The Chilcott Inquiry is understandably, taking forever and a day - in July I believe they start to give 'right to respond' to criticisms before moving on to the final report.
Moving back to the position that TT seems to take, I want to put the view forward, that hooligans and anarchists who behave in a criminal way and those who indulge in gratuitous abuse, come from all parts of the political spectrum.
And TT, an apology for using the word 'plonker' in an earlier post - unparliamentary language ! I'm watching too much Del Boy !
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 11, 2013, 09:37:59 AM
I haven't seen images of any riots but I assume from posts here and elsewhere that they have taken place.

The illegal actions of a few do not detract from the opinions of many others.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: jivvy on April 11, 2013, 10:31:55 AM
This makes interesting reading



http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/blame-margaret-thatcher-todays-problems-174519607.html (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/blame-margaret-thatcher-todays-problems-174519607.html)
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 11, 2013, 10:41:09 AM
A biased article that ignore the damage down by her de-regulation of the financial services market and the misery suffered by may ordinary people. Today's ills in the UK follow from her actions.
Title: Re: Witch is Dead is on track to reach No.1 + the dead parrot
Post by: thaiga on April 11, 2013, 12:59:25 PM
Well she did have a sense of humour

DING Dong the Witch is Dead is on track to reach No.1 in the UK charts next week as part of a musical anti-tribute to Margaret Thatcher.

In death, the former Prime Minister is proving to be every bit as divisive as her reign was in life, with many mourning the passing of a woman they saw as a strong and brilliant leader while others see her legacy in very different terms.

Margaret Thatcher does the Dead Parrot Sketch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ6TgaPJcR0#)

10 iconic moments of margaret thatcher's career.  here (http://koratfart.com/museum-the-arts/luncheon-vouchers-all-our-yesterdays/msg24681/?PHPSESSID=30b0792d86f7e92c6736beaf0e692ba5#msg24681)

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 11, 2013, 06:38:14 PM
OK Roger, apology accepted.  You will now have to submit to a bollocking from The Speaker.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 11, 2013, 07:08:53 PM
I am surprised that there is yet no comment on this thread about a comparison between Margaret Thatcher and Churchill.  I only mention this because I want to add a completely O/T detail.  As I understand it Winston Churchill was drunk throughout World War 2.  One day, in the House of Commons, he was rebuked for his drunkenness by Labour MP Bessie Braddock.  Churchill came back with the finest one-liner of all time:- "Madam, in the morning I shall be sober but you will still be ugly"
Title: Re: Thatcher statue in Westminster 'will be given go-ahead'
Post by: thaiga on April 11, 2013, 07:13:20 PM
A new statue for Baroness Thatcher has moved a step closer after Westminster Council indicated they would give a green light to plans.

The official responsible for planning at Tory Westminster Council has said he and his colleagues are "very up" for a statue of Lady Thatcher in the borough, and suggested putting it in Parliament Square or outside of the Ministry of Defence.

The indication that the council would give planning approval comes after a growing number of calls for Lady Thatcher to be immortalised.

London Mayor Boris Johnson, Defence Secretary Philip Hammond, former Cabinet minister Lord Tebbit, Conservative Peer Lord Ashcroft and a number of Falklands veterans have all said she should be publicly honoured in the heart of the capital.

Prime Minister David Cameron has indicated that he welcomes the suggestions, which will be considered in due course.

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has also refused to dismiss the plans, saying on his LBC call in show: "Of course she is a polarising figure, she is a controversial figure, I'm not going to begrudge her supporters the right to advocate there should be some statue."

Westminster City Council Deputy Leader, Cllr Robert Davis, said the council would "look favourably" on anyone coming forward with a genuine proposal.

“I think that the council would be very up for it," Cllr Davis said.

“We would have to consider that planning aspects, but it is really a matter of where it would be and what it would look like.

“The principle is something that the majority of the council would approve of.”

The next step would be for individuals to form an organising committee and then find donors, and a sculptor to create the memorial to the Iron Lady.

Cllr Davis echoed Mr Johnson’s comments that the most appropriate place for any statue would need researching, although initial suggestions included the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square.

He said: “I actually think that Parliament Square may be more appropriate, or maybe outside the Minsitry of Defence, there is room for more statues there. Let’s look at all the options, let’s find out what it is going to look like.”

The Chair of Planning Applications Sub-Committee explained that once a committee had finalised their plans then an application would need to be submitted and decided upon by the council, who would also need to be provided with a “dowry” to maintain the artwork.

Cllr Davis added: “I think that Lady Thatcher is absolutely deserving of a statue. She was given the freedom of the City of Westminster in 1991, it is a very rare honour. She is one of our honorary freeman, so we obviously think very highly of her."

The only other Prime Minister to be granted the honour was Winston Churchill.

Lord Ashcroft, the Conservative peer, businessman and philanthropist, has said: “Exceptional people deserve exceptional recognition. Baroness Thatcher made an extraordinary contribution to British politics and British life.

“It is therefore appropriate for her to receive an outstanding public acknowledgement of the nation’s gratitude for all that she has done."

He joined MR Hammond, Commander John Muxworthy, a Lt Commander on the SS Canberra during the Falklands conflict, and Lord Tebbit in suggesting that Trafalgar Square would be a fitting home for a memorial. .

However, the space is managed by the Greater London Authority, and a spokesperson said that it is “not suitable” as the arts programme already in place is set to continue for several years.

The Mayor has vowed that his “office will do all it can to help find a suitable high profile site for a statue that reflects the indelible mark she has left in the service of our country”.

Lord Ashcroft’s second suggestion of a memorial in Westminster echoes that of UKIP leader Nigel Farage, who said that it would ““show the outside world that we view her as an important political figure”.

Mr Hammond has agreed that it is “very appropriate to have a memorial” in the centre of London.

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 11, 2013, 09:31:05 PM
These plans may be reviewed after the Funeral is held - I suspect hooligans across the political spectrum may indulge themselves.
I can think of a suitable high profile site in London for the MT statue.
On the top of Canary Wharf - it's high and she cannot be seen.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 12, 2013, 01:32:11 AM
This is Boris Johnson in The New Statesman:-

“…there is an interesting psychological difference between left-wingers and right-wingers. On the whole, right-wingers are prepared to indulge left-wingers on the grounds that they may be wrong and misguided but are still perfectly nice. Lefties, on the other hand, are much more likely to think right-wingers are genuinely evil.”
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 12, 2013, 08:45:17 AM
I am surprised that there is yet no comment on this thread about a comparison between Margaret Thatcher and Churchill.  I only mention this because I want to add a completely O/T detail.  As I understand it Winston Churchill was drunk throughout World War 2.  One day, in the House of Commons, he was rebuked for his drunkenness by Labour MP Bessie Braddock.  Churchill came back with the finest one-liner of all time:- "Madam, in the morning I shall be sober but you will still be ugly"

Yes, he was, apparently, a nasty piece of work. Did he not suggest that starving miners families in the '30s eat grass?
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 12, 2013, 09:12:00 AM
TT.  I like Boris and don't think he is evil at all. Lefties too can think Righties are wrong and misguided but perfectly nice.
SAF, I don't think we should be too hard on Winston. But I hadn't heard the quote about the 'grass' before ! shocker.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 12, 2013, 10:23:16 AM
I think that Boris is a breath of fresh air in British politics.

Churchill, on the other hand, was a typical old school Tory who nothing of working class life.

During the War, he had a walkabout in London the day after a bombing raid. Walking , cigar in mouth, up to a group of ladies who were rescuing what they could from a bombed house, he said something like, 'We shall prevail'. The very appropriate response went something like, 'It's OK for you. You weren't here'.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher ♦ Billy Elliot audience go-ahead ♦ Thatcher song
Post by: thaiga on April 12, 2013, 12:36:16 PM
Billy Elliot audience gives go-ahead to Thatcher song

Theatre-goers at a West End production of Billy Elliot voted overwhelmingly to keep in a song celebrating Margaret Thatcher's death hours after she died.

The second act of the musical, which is set during the miners' strike, begins with the song Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher, which has lyrics that refer to celebrating the death of the former prime minister.

The audience on Monday night were asked to vote on whether to keep the song in.

Only three people voted against the song being performed.

A Billy Elliot insider said that the vote was taken seriously and debated until it was decided that it would be best to put it to a democratic vote.

"It was a near unanimous verdict to keep the song in and go ahead.

"It was an electric show," they added.

Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher contains the lyrics: "We all celebrate today 'cos it's one day closer to your death.

"And they've brought their fascist bootboys and they've brought the boys in blue, and the whole Trade Union Congress will be at the party too.

"And they'll all hold hands together. All standing in a line cos they're privatising Santa this merry Christmas time, so…

"Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher, may God's love be with you. We all sing together in one breath.

"Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher, we all celebrate today 'cos it's one day closer to your death."

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 12, 2013, 01:26:44 PM
Hey Saf - an interesting anecdote indeed - I can identify with Churchill's stance in making that comment. He had so much to handle and so many difficult decisions to lead and take, it was necessary for him to stay a bit remote and determined rather than wearing his heart on his sleeve - after all, he was surrounded by tragedies on a daily basis.
Keeping his determination and inspiration to lead the whole nation in the battle against the odds, was rather more important.
Strong leaders (and people) often have very strong faults - illustrated in both WC and MT !
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 12, 2013, 01:39:00 PM
Thaiga - the BE song IMO, has been in poor taste all along but is beyond the pale (and inaccurate) at the moment ...... I enjoyed the Billy Elliot film and don't remember the hardships getting as personal as they appear to be in the Musical.
I don't really agree with the BBC playing the 'Ding Dong' song until after the MT funeral - the song has no other context than MT at the moment.
Have a good Songkran !
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher ♦ Anti-Thatcher 'party' draws hundreds
Post by: thaiga on April 14, 2013, 11:36:26 AM
LONDON - Hundreds of opponents of Margaret Thatcher trooped into Trafalgar Square on Saturday evening for a rain-soaked celebration of the former British prime minister's death earlier this week.

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7b/491563_imagesia-com_7bof_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/491563_7bof)
A protester wears a mask depicting former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher during a "party" to mark her death on Saturday.

Former coal miners involved in the year-long strike against the Iron Lady's government in the 1980s joined far-left activists and students to drink to the Iron Lady's demise.

An effigy of the former Conservative leader was carried through the crowd beneath Nelson's Column, complete with her trademark string of pearls and bouffant hair made from orange plastic bags.

There was a strong police presence for the demonstration, after trouble erupted at several impromptu street celebrations following Thatcher's death from a stroke on Monday at the age of 87.

But the atmosphere was more street carnival than riot, with people of all ages -- many of them barely born when she left office in 1990 -- dancing, playing tambourines, blowing whistles and horns.

Five people were arrested on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly or for inflicting grievous bodily harm, police said.

Several of those attending said they were also planning to protest at Thatcher's funeral on Wednesday by lining the processional route and turning their backs when her coffin goes past.

The ceremony will fall short of a full state funeral but it will involve 700 members of the armed forces and be attended by the queen among 2,000 global political figures and celebrities.

The former premier's daughter Carol Thatcher earlier said she was bracing for a "tough and tearful week".

The Trafalgar Square event was organised on social media sites and driven by a call two decades ago by some of Thatcher's opponents to hold a party on the first Saturday after her death.

The square is one of London's biggest tourist hubs and the scene of a riot in 1990 against the poll tax, a deeply unpopular local levy which contributed to Thatcher's fall that year.

Among the crowd on Saturday were ex-miners from the north of England, who saw their communities devastated in a wave of pit closures during Thatcher's 11 years in power from 1979 to 1990.

David Douglass, a former miner and member of the National Union of Mineworkers from Yorkshire, said he was "very pleased" at news of Thatcher's death.

He said she was a "terrible woman" and added: "We're absolutely furious at this image that is being presented on television, that the whole country is in mourning."

Sigrid Holmwood, a 34-year-old Scottish artist living in London, came well-prepared for the rain with a special umbrella reading "ding dong" on the front.

A song from the hit musical the Wizard of Oz, "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead", has become a rallying cry for anti-Thatcher sentiment since her death and has shot up the singles charts this week.

"I came here today, I wouldn't say to celebrate, but protesting against millions of public money being spent on her funeral when there are (government spending) cuts that affect the sick or the disabled," Holmwood told AFP.

Elsewhere on Saturday, some fans of Liverpool football club held up anti-Thatcher banners at a Premier League match reading "We're gonna have a party" and chanted "Maggie's dead, dead, dead".

-- Thatcher 'left detailed instructions' --

Police are mounting a major security operation for Wednesday's funeral, when Thatcher's coffin will be taken to St Paul's Cathedral through streets lined with members of the armed forces.

The ceremony itself will be carried out in line with strict instructions left by the former premier herself, according to the Daily Telegraph newspaper.

It said she requested that Cameron, as prime minister of the day, read a passage from the Bible but did not want any political eulogy. She also asked that her favourite hymns be sung.

Thatcher's 59-year-old twins Mark and Carol were out of the country when their mother died at London's Ritz hotel, where she spent her last months, but returned home this week.

Carol Thatcher told reporters outside the family's plush home in central London on Saturday that she had been moved by the "magnificent" tributes to her mother from around the world.

"I feel like anyone else who has just lost a second parent," she said, referring to the death of her father Denis in 2003.

She added: "I know that this is going to be a tough and tearful week, even for the daughter of the Iron Lady."

Thatcher's death has sparked fierce debate about her legacy in Britain.

Her admirers credit her with helping to end the Cold War and reinvigorating the British economy after decades of decline.

But left-wing opponents accuse her of pushing a ruthlessly individualistic agenda and putting millions out of work with her radical free-market reforms.

bangkokpost
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 14, 2013, 01:17:41 PM
I think MT funeral is on Wednesday next - it won't be a pretty sight. IMO.
Title: Re: there is no respect any more
Post by: thaiga on April 14, 2013, 01:29:15 PM
Margaret Thatcher dead: The vile outpouring of hate shows there is no respect any more

So sad that an old lady's memory is being rubbished by armies of two-bob anarchists

didn’t much like my country last week because I saw a side to it that was ugly and coarse and cruel.

Maggie Thatcher wasn’t even cold before the tsunami of hatred crashed through the plaudits like a poison riptide. “The Witch is dead”, “Rot in Hell”, “Rejoice, Thatcher is dead” said the vile banners, even though many of those brandishing them weren’t even alive when Thatcher was in power.

And how ironic that the people screaming she’d wrecked the country and wrecked their lives still had enough money to buy champagne to drink to her death, to shout that they hoped it was a painful and degrading one.

Still, they followed the mob, sheep-like, shouting that someone had told them she was a bitch... and so they were glad she was dead.

I never voted for Thatcher and there’s nothing wrong with detesting her policies (some people have every right to) but don’t dance on her face, don’t drink to her death. It’s puerile and stupid and says more about the people doing it than the woman they’re vilifying.

What kind of country are we when people rejoice that an old lady had a stroke and died?

Unlike a lot of those baby-faced protesters – and the professional rabble-rousers egging them on – I was born into one of the mining communities that Thatcher’s policies decimated. I lived among the men whose livelihoods she stole and worked in communities that had the lifeblood sucked out of them when the pits and the shipyards shut.

And while for many of those men unemployment was a lifelong shame that ate away at their souls, I never heard any of them talk about Maggie Thatcher the way some of those louts did last week. Yes, some of them hated her policies, but they never allowed her to rob them of their dignity, their inherent decency. A lot of those men belonged to the old school who “didn’t speak ill of the dead”. And had they been alive today they’d have been appalled at the vitriol heaped on a frail old woman who hasn’t been politically active for two decades and who lost her mind years ago.

Thatcher’s biggest crime back then wasn’t shutting down dying industries (and the mines WERE dying). It was not thinking through what the people she threw out of work would do afterwards and then doing nothing to help them rebuild their lives. That WAS a crime.
screaming

As for those pits people talk of so romantically, show me one mother who’d want her son to work a mile underground in that dankness, one  wife who’d want her husband bent double for eight hours at a stretch in 3ft coal seams while his lungs were eaten by coal dust.

Have those people screaming about pit closures ever watched a man die of black lung (pneumoconiosis)? Because I have and it isn’t pretty. Don’t they know Scargill is every bit as responsible for the death of the pits as ­Thatcher because of the strikes he called without balloting his men... men who hated him a darn sight more than they hated Thatcher.

My family lived through those strikes where you never knew from one day to the next whether you’d have light or heating or coal. My dad, a lifelong Labour voter, even voted for Thatcher in 1979 because as he said: “She’s a bloody leader, Carole, and we need a leader to get us out of this mess.”

And the men who swept her into power in ’79 WERE the workers – with an unprecedented swing of 11 per cent of skilled workers and a nine per cent swing of unskilled... the same kind of ordinary northern working people 55 per cent of whom were STILL saying last week Maggie was our best-ever PM. So not every working-class person hated Thatcher. The facts say otherwise. But this isn’t about what she did. It’s about what WE’RE doing to her memory.

Yes, free speech is our right, but does it have to involve calls to “p*** on her grave” because that shames us all in the eyes of a world Thatcher taught to respect us? And it’s not just the cruelty that’s been shocking – it’s the unbridled sexism. Never have I seen a male politician vilified or called the foul names she has been.

Yes, there were things all of us disliked about Thatcher, but it’s foolish to deny she was a political colossus with bigger balls than all of our politicians today put together.

And how sad that her memory – any old lady’s memory – is being rubbished by armies of two-bob anarchists who’d sell their granny for a bit of media attention. These people haven’t just trashed Thatcher. They’ve trashed one of our last taboos – that you don’t speak ill of the dead. Now, there is no respect for the dead. And soon there’ll be no respect for anything.

mirror.co.uk
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 14, 2013, 01:39:11 PM
Yes Thaiga It's hard to disagree with most of that. ATB
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 14, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
Good afternoon Thaiga and Happy Songkran from the Chaopaya Inn.
The last post about MT from the Mirror was good - but painful reading.
But I wonder if it would be possible to acknowledge the source of the script at the start of the post as a convention on the BB - being dim I often read the whole thing and was thinking it was you !
Just a thought. ATB.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: thaiga on April 14, 2013, 02:15:57 PM

My dad, a lifelong Labour voter, even voted for Thatcher in 1979 because as he said: “She’s a bloody leader, Carole, and we need a leader to get us out of this mess.”

not me i'm afraid ( carole )  enjoy yourself :cheers
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 14, 2013, 02:50:51 PM
Thanks for the thread Thaiga. OK - written by Carole Malone in the Daily Mirror and I agree with her largely.
Just a helpful suggestion though, I think it would be a helpful convention to attribute to the Writer at the beginning of the post.
Changing tack, John Cooper QC made the point on Friday's 'Any Questions', that because allegedly, the 'Ceremonial' MT funeral costs the taxpayer £8 million, then the public have the right to demonstrate if they wish. The resulting applause was very loud.
Thanks - off to brave Songkran now !
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 14, 2013, 02:55:35 PM
BRINGING BRITAIN BACK FROM THE WILDERNESS

With tributes from across the world hailing Baroness Thatcher’s life, Louise Armitstead (Sunday Times) explores the profound impact that she had upon the UK and its economy
When Sir Winston Churchill died in 1965, there were a total of four tribute speeches in the House of Commons. When Parliament was recalled last week, seven hours was set aside for MPs and Lords to pay their respects to Baroness Thatcher.

There were statesman-like tributes from all three party leaders about Britain’s longest serving prime minister of the 20th Century, and long speeches praising her personal qualities – courage, conviction, patriotism and humour, all laced with a little glamour.
Lord Ashdown, no fawning fan of the Conservative leader, described Lady Thatcher as the “greatest prime minister of our day”. David Cameron said she had “saved” Britain.
From around the world the tributes came. President Obama commented that America had “lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty”.
From Russia’s Mikhail Gorbachev to Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu, Lady Thatcher was hailed as a transforming leader. “The amazing Margaret Thatcher,” said Steve Forbes, the chief executive of America’s eponymous publishing house. “We desperately need more leaders like her.”
Lady Thatcher certainly aroused strong opinions. For the Left she became a hate figure, a scapegoat for a creaking social-democratic consensus that by the 1970s had left the dead unburied and uncollected rubbish piled high in Trafalgar Square.
“Thatcherism [wrought] the most heinous social and economic damage on this country, on my constituency, and on my constituents,” said Glenda Jackson, the Labour MP and former actress.
“We were told that everything I had been taught to regard as a vice, under Thatcherism was in fact a virtue: greed, selfishness, no care for the weaker, sharp elbows, sharp knees.”
Six days after her death, the battle is over Lady Thatcher’s legacy to a nation that in 1979 was drifting towards a divided and bitter also-ran. In 1990, when she reigned, Britain had rediscovered its mojo.
This has not been about merely acclaiming, or criticising, the life of a former prime minister. Rather, the death of the Iron Lady, famed for her leadership in a crisis, has brought into sharp focus the handling of today’s problems – political, social and, above all, economic. Lady Thatcher came to power when Britain was the “sick man of Europe” and administered tough medicine with radical consequences. Free markets, privatisations, Big Bang and a refusal to support failing industries were the core of her political philosophy.
The memories are emotive because Britain, now teetering on the edge of triple-dip recession, faces a profound choice: to tackle today’s economic malaise with Thatcherite principles or reject them once and for all.
Should Britain resurrect monetarism and “live within its means”, or spend its way out of recession? Is quantitative easing dangerously interventionist or providing vital support? Did deregulation of the City cause the financial crisis? Has privatisation gone too far? Should the Government support some industries, or none? Should Britain quit Europe, cut taxes, and sell council estates back to the people who live in them?
And what is to be done about two-speed Britain, where London and the South-East leave the rest of the country struggling to keep up economically? Is there room for a “regional policy”?
The powder keg under the debate is that Lady Thatcher never sought popularity if she thought her policies were right. How true would that be today?
“If she’d waited for consensus nothing would ever have happened. She saw what needed to be done and did it,” said Lord Howard of Lympne, the former home secretary.
Tony Blair agreed, with some distinctly Thatcherite advice to the Labour Party in the New Statesman: “The paradox of the financial crisis is that, despite being widely held to have been caused by under-regulated markets, it has not brought a decisive shift to the Left.” He added: “We have to be dispassionate even when the issues arouse great passion.”
To listen to the vitriolic anger of Lady Thatcher’s opponents last week would be to imagine she exploded like a rocket on an otherwise peaceful and prosperous nation. But how many of the revellers at last week’s “death parties” would be able to cope, let alone be happier, in the Britain of 1979?
Back then, people had to wait six months to get a telephone, were banned from taking more than £50 abroad and were at the mercy of union leaders for jobs.
The economy was crippled by rampant inflation, punitive taxes and a 98pc levy on investment income that crushed entrepreneurial initiative. In 1977, Britain had to accept a handout from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), like Greece or Cyprus today.
The Government owned the telephones and railways, but also British Airways, Thomas Cook and Pickfords. Each was paralysed by inefficiency and bureaucracy, “customer service” was a little-known skill. A once proud industrial base was crumbling with low productivity, over-manning and a reputation for poor quality goods.
A total of 29m working days were lost to strikes in 1979, compared with 2m in 1990. Power cuts were standard and industries were limited to a three-day working week to conserve energy. The candle was almost a unit of currency.
Successive governments wrung their hands and pursued policies of conciliation with the unions, which basically meant capitulation. The demands from increasingly militant leaders grew; more money, more pay or paralysis.
Last week, the BBC, which Lady Thatcher disliked for its Leftist world view, replayed films of violent picket lines and repeated the epitaph that she was “divisive” because she apparently tore mining communities apart.
The decline had started long before. Harold Wilson, the Labour prime minister, closed 251 coal mines. Lady Thatcher closed 154. Despite the claim LadyThatcher abandoned “rustbucket industries”, Britain’s manufacturing production rose 7.5pc during her premiership.
Lives were upturned and jobs were lost and Lady Thatcher, like many leaders since, failed to come up with replacement employment in the mining areas of Wales and north-east England.
Despite this heavy price for some, few that lived through the 1970s regretted that Lady Thatcher reclaimed Britain from controlled labour and delivered a semblance of market discipline to the world of business.
The unions weren’t the economy’s only shackles. Britain also suffered from a collective crisis of confidence.
The post-War, post-Empire consensus was to “manage the decline”. Prevailing economic attitudes were protectionist, provincial and very unambitious. The City was dusty and anachronistic and the nation increasingly looked to the Government for sustenance.
Into this twilight-zone – half civil war, half stupor – Lady Thatcher thrust her two passions that shattered the status quo; a hatred of socialism and a love of Friedrich Hayek, the free market economist. “Without economic liberty there could be no true political liberty,” she told European leaders in 1979.
In her vision, Britain was to be transformed into a nation of business leaders and wealth creators, unencumbered by the state, and with no need for reliance on it either.
Her mixed success has led some to conclude her ideology was a failure and others to lament that the policies were never fully implemented.
At the start, Lady Thatcher’s economic policies pushed Britain into a painful period of adjustment. George Osborne has been attacked for a 0.3pc contraction in the economy. In Lady Thatcher’s first two years GDP shrank 3.5pc and unemployment rose by a million.
Her government, under the chancellorship of Geoffrey Howe, attacked hyperinflation with blisteringly high interest rates, raised from 12pc to 14pc in 1979 and then to 17pc in 1980. Manufacturing was hard hit and the recession at the beginning of the 1980s was the worst since the Great Depression.
Yet herfirm stance and radical action have led to demands for Mr Osborne to do the same. In Lord Howe’s first Budget in 1979, the top rate of income tax was cut from 83pc to 60pc (it was later cut to 40pc) and the basic rate was cut from 33pc to 30pc.
The moves sent an unmistakable pro-business, pro-aspiration message. Cameron and Osborne have tried to do the same with the cut in corporation tax, but the reality is that this is a minor levy in the morass of other business taxes that remain.
Thatcher’s mantra was that businesses created wealth, not governments and the privatisation of state-owned industries was one of her most lasting legacies.
State ownership of businesses, in Britain and abroad, had been the dominant practice since 1945. A sell-off was originally planned as a cash raid for the Treasury, but by the time Lady Thatcher left office, it had snowballed into a philosophy that swept across the world.
Between 1984 and 1991, 33 major companies were privatised in what the old guard, such as Harold MacMillan, called “selling off the family silver”.
Associated British Ports, British Airports Authority, British Airways, British Gas, British Steel, British Telecom, 17 electricity companies and 10 water and sewerage companies left public ownership.
According to the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS), the state companies went from costing the Treasury an average of £300m each a year in subsidies to contributing between £3.3bn and £5.8bn a year in corporation tax from 1987 onwards.
British Steel needed £1bn of Treasury support in 1980 on a turnover of £3bn, earning itself a place in the Guinness Book of Records for inefficiency. Soon after privatisation it was profitable and contributing £200m a year in taxes.
British Telecom had a £300m cash injection in 1980; in 1995 it paid £1.1bn to the Exchequer.
The consumer also benefited. By 1995, domestic gas prices fell 25pc and commercial gas costs were 50pc lower. Telecoms charges fell by 40pc and airport charges dropped 10pc.
State-run companies accounted for 10pc of the UK economy in 1979, a figure that has fallen to just 2pc today and the programme is not yet complete. The Royal Mail is the latest to join the queue and there have been calls for a further sell-off of state assets from the Met Office, to Channel 4 and the London Underground.
The M6 toll road is a test case for proponents of road privati-
role model and the belief she instilled in the nation with her deep, unmoveable and authentic belief in enterprise.
Which is not to say that I ever heard the word “entrepreneur” spoken by Baroness Thatcher or anyone else growing up.
Unlike in today’s world of Dragons’ Den and The Apprentice, building a business wasn’t a reality TV staple in Baroness Thatcher’s Britain. Nor were successful entrepreneurs hailed as rock stars.
As a young person, my store of successful entrepreneurial role models included Sir Richard Branson and that was about it. So how did Baroness Thatcher encourage me to become an entrepreneur without lionising entrepreneurs? By doing something more fundamental: lionising work and grit.
In today’s world we can forget that entrepreneurship doesn’t come from TV shows or celebrity entrepreneurs at the doors of Downing Street. While our current Government has introduced the Start-up Loans scheme and the Seed Enterprise Investment Scheme, we lack people who truly understand the conditions that need to exist for an entrepreneurial culture to be created.
The distribution of loans or development of tax schemes for entrepreneurs will not change the attitudes and attributes of the current generation and without this we run the risk of never reaching our full potential as a truly enterprising nation.
Glamorising the lifestyles of successful entrepreneurs will not push people to found businesses, because founding businesses isn’t glamorous. It’s a slog and an immense amount of work.
With every bone in her body Baroness Thatcher represented the real qualities and behaviours entrepreneurs need for success and in her passing we have lost someone who has had, and will continue to have, a huge impact on the thinking of many members of my generation
Our leaders influence the psyche of developing minds. It is a pity that our current generation will not have Lady Thatcher’s real-life model of persistence and true work ethic.
This is a woman who was famous for surviving on four hours of sleep and who was barely ever seen to take a vacation. The lesson was clear – you get out what you put in. It is undeniable that all of us enjoy “chillaxing” and embracing “date nights”, but sadly this does not and will not build successful businesses.
It will not take you up the career ladder and it will not develop our country into something we can all be proud of. When the top person works so hard, you learn that there’s a lot in hard work. Dangling money and success infront of young people not only fails to convey to them what entrepreneurialism is really about. It also does nothing to instill the determination that building a business demands.
How can we give people determination and actually create the additional entrepreneurs Britain needs? You can only become a role model, as Baroness Thatcher did, by embodying aspiration and steely nerves, and then you get out of the way.
The Britain Baroness Thatcher built welcomed immigrants like my family and me. The country she created promised that those who moved here would be able to build a life; the culture enabled and empowered new arrivals who understood that no matter where they came from or who they were back home, it was possible to reach their dreams through hard work. Everything, we felt, was achievable if we only took responsibility for ourselves.
Baroness Thatcher revealed the truth that anyone can do it regardless of your gender or where your journey began. I believe the way to encourage an enterprise culture is to surround our current younger generation with people who, just like Baroness Thatcher, just got on and did.
Sahar Hashemi founded Coffee Republic in 1995 with her brother, Bobby, and Skinny Candy confectionary in 2005. into a booming global banking hub.
Lady Thatcher viewed the old boys of the City with the same contempt as the some of the dinosaurs of the Tory party; as her adviser Lord Bell said last week, she would have “profoundly appalled” by the greed and contempt exposed by the financial crisis. “She probably would have let the banks go bust, it was what the markets were asking for,” he said.
At her core, Lady Thatcher wanted to resurrect the market and rediscover capitalism.
Archie Norman, the chairman of ITV, said: “She restored the idea that free enterprise was a socially legitimate activity. She rebalanced the argument for capitalism and created confidence and belief in the social worth of entrepreneurship.”
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 14, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Obviously strong feelings around. For me, despite nominally sorting out the Trade Unions a little, her Governments blew the proceeds of many 'Privatisations' of debatable merit and the North sea oil revenues, leaving Industry widely shattered - that was not a problem as we had 'services' to rely on. Industry never recovered. MT was IMO a disastrous PM.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 14, 2013, 04:26:01 PM
There is much talk of erecting a statue of Baroness Thatcher, but not much agreement on the location.  Margaret was a warrior and was not afraid to take on the battles that the menfolk were afraid of..just like our very own Ya-mo.  A plinth and statue next to Ya-mo would be very good.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 14, 2013, 06:54:42 PM
The outcry ay her death is unprecedented and shows the strength of feeling against her that exists even today. The demonstrators are only the tip of the iceberg.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 14, 2013, 07:41:32 PM
Saf. I agree. So is the MT 'secret' for receiving her adulation, when, one has cocked up NEARLY everything else and one is losing support with the electorate - FIGHT A WAR ! That's an original talent - I do wish !
TT as I suggested before, she SHOULD have a statue, and it should be on the top of Canary Wharf. (About 2" high).
As for Yamoo - I don't think I have ever heard a more bizarre suggestion about anything at all, in all my life.
Happy Songkran to all !

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on April 14, 2013, 08:00:00 PM
The common enemy - George Orwell 1984.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 14, 2013, 08:11:01 PM
Her Death doesn't matter so much more than anyone else's.
Sorry for the Old Gal - she who tried so hard. But she messed up.
I don't suppose she meant harm but she did do harm.
IMHO
Title: Re: thatcher is dead lets do the conga ♦ video
Post by: thaiga on April 14, 2013, 08:49:15 PM
Thatcher: Conga in Glasgow to mark hated legacy

About 12 protesters attempted a conga while chanting “Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, dead, dead, dead”. Most were under 30, if not 25. Why come to celebrate the death of a woman who lost power before you were born?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/thatcher-conga-in-glasgow-to-mark-hated-legacy-1-2894386 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/thatcher-conga-in-glasgow-to-mark-hated-legacy-1-2894386)


THATCHER IS DEAD : LET'S DO THE CONGA : GLASGOW 8/4/13 george sq. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omuNsoEL3SI#)
Title: Re: thatcher is dead lets do the conga ♦ video
Post by: sicho on April 15, 2013, 06:51:35 AM
Thatcher: Conga in Glasgow to mark hated legacy

About 12 protesters attempted a conga while chanting “Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, dead, dead, dead”. Most were under 30, if not 25. Why come to celebrate the death of a woman who lost power before you were born?

[url]http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/thatcher-conga-in-glasgow-to-mark-hated-legacy-1-2894386[/url] ([url]http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/thatcher-conga-in-glasgow-to-mark-hated-legacy-1-2894386[/url])


THATCHER IS DEAD : LET'S DO THE CONGA : GLASGOW 8/4/13 george sq. ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omuNsoEL3SI#[/url])


Perhaps their families still suffer from what she did. Perhaps they are politically and economically knowledgable and can see the damage that she did.

She was so engrossed in pleasing her boyfriend Reagan and doing the bidding of her masters that she lost sight of the needs of the people.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher's funeral
Post by: thaiga on April 17, 2013, 11:18:11 PM
coverage from today's events in central London

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/64dddeca-b005-4f5b-ada9-bfb274680569-620x384_imagesia-com_7fbl_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/64dddeca-b005-4f5b-ada9-bfb274680569-620x384_7fbl)
Another great image from Goldthorpe: the horse drawn hearse carrying the effigy and a coffin pass Goldthorpe Union Jack Memorial club. Photograph: John Giles/PA

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/1b1bdb80-aead-4e29-91f9-3a44032935d4-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbn_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/1b1bdb80-aead-4e29-91f9-3a44032935d4-620x372_7fbn)
An effigy of Margaret Thatcher in a 'coffin' is burnt together with a sofa as people gather to celebrate her death in Goldthorpe, northern England. Photograph: Andrew Yates/AFP/Getty Images

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/6da4daa8-b8a7-4ba4-8fc9-94939a513eab-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbo_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/6da4daa8-b8a7-4ba4-8fc9-94939a513eab-620x372_7fbo)
Another country, another wake: locals at Danderhall Miners Club Scotland hold a celebration party to mark the funeral of Lady Thatcher. Photograph: David Cheskin/PA

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/db4495d1-2d1f-4b27-95e0-67f390b4723d-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbp_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/db4495d1-2d1f-4b27-95e0-67f390b4723d-620x372_7fbp)
Dame Shirley Bassey leaves the reception held at the Guildhall this afternoon. Photograph: Matthew Lloyd/Getty Images

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/2504e920-95b7-48fd-a703-fc7eb4276059-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbq_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/2504e920-95b7-48fd-a703-fc7eb4276059-620x372_7fbq)
Carol Thatcher, Marco Grass, Sarah Thatcher, Mark Thatcher, Michael Thatcher and Amanda Thatcher watch the coffin depart from St Paul's. Photograph: Tim Rooke/Rex Features

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/8e07471c-75df-475f-b563-3f443ce3b4b9-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbr_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/8e07471c-75df-475f-b563-3f443ce3b4b9-620x372_7fbr)
Mark Thatcher walks behind the coffin of his mother as it leaves St Paul's Cathedral. Photograph: Toby Melville/Reuters

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/b030bdf8-996a-4375-a9bf-fc934f889fb4-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbt_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/b030bdf8-996a-4375-a9bf-fc934f889fb4-620x372_7fbt)
A protester's banner in the Strand, outside the Royal Courts of Justice. Photograph: David Levene for the Guardian.

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/e24e5ebb-7ef5-4e2a-afae-3402326ad079-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbu_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/e24e5ebb-7ef5-4e2a-afae-3402326ad079-620x372_7fbu)
David Cameron gives a reading next to the coffin during Lady Thatcher's funeral service. Photograph: Christopher Furlong/Getty Images

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/623a0c15-98ff-4d02-8a77-aea02dbe1537-620x411_imagesia-com_7fbw_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/623a0c15-98ff-4d02-8a77-aea02dbe1537-620x411_7fbw)
Demonstrators turn their backs as the funeral procession of the former prime minister Margaret Thatcher travels towards St Paul's Cathedral. Photograph: Paul Hackett/Reuters

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/eecaf179-df70-4693-9361-a98ae0bc8cb9-620x372_imagesia-com_7fbx_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/eecaf179-df70-4693-9361-a98ae0bc8cb9-620x372_7fbx)
Miners arrive at Easington colliery club for today's gathering as the funeral of Lady Thatcher takes place. Photograph: Owen Humphreys/PA

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/7446bad7-de3d-465a-95c1-576ec460cfc3-620x405_imagesia-com_7fbz_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/7446bad7-de3d-465a-95c1-576ec460cfc3-620x405_7fbz)
Another view of the cortege passing along Fleet Street towards St Paul's. Photograph: Michael Regan/Getty Images

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7f/708cf6a6-c1c7-4b10-8081-2f3e6e9ddf0b-620x372_imagesia-com_7fc0_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/708cf6a6-c1c7-4b10-8081-2f3e6e9ddf0b-620x372_7fc0)
A protester holds a sign at Trafalgar Square. Photograph: Jordan Mansfield/Getty Images

and lots lots more here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2013/apr/17/picture-desk-live-the-best-pictures-from-lady-thatcher-s-funeral)

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 19, 2013, 02:56:34 PM
Taman Tun - As much as we disagreed about MT - I just wanted to say that I was pleased that her Funeral went as planned.
For the most part, the Protestors behaved in dignified manner. To their credit. Thankfully earlier fears were largely unfounded.
Perhaps young Cameron can now get stuck in and sort out the good ole' UK now.
ATB
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 19, 2013, 07:10:11 PM
Yes Roger, glad there were no major disturbances.  Unfortunately I do not hold out much hope for great things from Mr. Cameron.
Title: Re: McLoughlin hits back at Margaret Thatcher critics
Post by: thaiga on April 19, 2013, 07:11:23 PM
Former miner turned Cabinet minister Patrick McLoughlin hits back at Margaret Thatcher critics

A Conservative Cabinet minister who refused to go on strike when he was working as a miner in 1984 has hit back at critics of Baroness Thatcher.

(http://img.imagesia.com/fichiers/7g/maggie-thatcher-2-2533351b_imagesia-com_7gto_large.jpg) (http://imagesia.com/maggie-thatcher-2-2533351b_7gto)
Margaret Thatcher’s first visit underground to a coalface at Moorgreen Colliery in Nottinghamshire

Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport secretary, told The Daily Telegraph: “I was there. I worked through it. And much of what is being said now just isn’t true.”

Mr McLoughlin said he wanted to tackle the distortion of the facts around the 1984 miners’ strike, when pit workers clashed with police during a longer period of protest against a major mines closure programme, did so much to define Margaret Thatcher’s premiership.

Earlier this week, as tens of thousands of people gathered in London to mark Baroness Thatcher’s funeral, former miners in Yorkshire burnt her effigy to and staged a march in a 'celebration' of her death.

He said: “As a cabinet minister now and a miner in the 1980s, I have been listening to the debate about Baroness Thatcher with particular interest.

“Words like ‘divisive’ have been flung about. The miners’ strike has been laid at her door. Well I was there. I worked through it. And much of what is being said now just isn’t true.”

Mr McLoughlin, a member of the National Union of Mineworkers at the time, continued: “I was a pit worker among 1,600 others at Littleton Colliery in Staffordshire, part of what was then called the Western Region of the National Coal Board.

“I was a member of the Conservative Party and stood in Wolverhampton South East in 1983. I was also a member of the National Union of Miners when Arthur Scargill became leader the year before. And he knew that many working miners weren’t with him.”

Mr McLoughlin continued: “Scargill wasn’t interested in listening to the voice of his members and he tried to get round the ballots. It was Scargill, not Margaret Thatcher, who drove the divisions that followed the miners’ strike, by ignoring the miners’ democratic rights.

“Mrs Thatcher was not willing to cede to non-balloted strikes and, as with so many occasions when she stood her ground, she was absolutely right.

“As she herself said of the matter: ‘there are those who are using violence and intimidation to impose their will on others who do not want it ... the rule of law must prevail over the rule of the mob’.”

The Cabinet minister told how at “Littleton colliery, initially only around 20 of us kept on working though many, many more had voted against action.

“They were torn between what the union bosses wanted to do and what they thought was right. We kept the pit open, even if it sometimes it almost felt like we were bringing a lump each up ourselves.

“But despite the flying pickets, the number of working miners grew. We wanted the industry to thrive. It wasn’t a political game.”

Mr McLoughlin also criticised Labour failing to criticise the strike at the time.

He said: So be careful when people who weren’t there at the time tell you confidently of how a divisive Thatcher caused a strike that scarred communities across the midlands and the north.

“It wasn’t Mrs Thatcher who imposed a strike without a democratic mandate. Nor was it Mrs Thatcher who bit her tongue while that non-balloted strike took place and miners who wanted to continue to work were prevented from doing so.

“Yes, everyone agrees that the miners’ strike was a terrible and divisive period. But let’s be clear where the responsibility lies.”

source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10003852/Former-miner-turned-Cabinet-minister-Patrick-McLoughlin-hits-back-at-Margaret-Thatcher-critics.html)
Title: Re: Does David Cameron have the stomach for a fight like Lady Thatcher
Post by: thaiga on April 20, 2013, 11:29:44 AM
Does David Cameron have the stomach for a fight like Lady Thatcher did?

Downing Street says the Prime Minister, David Cameron, is offering a Thatcherite vision of a better Britain

Sometimes in politics, numbers speak more eloquently than any words. Those figures are not a grid reference, yet they point to the central issue in Conservative Party politics after Margaret Thatcher. They also describe the struggle facing the man trying to fill her shoes.

The first three numbers are the share of the vote Baroness Thatcher took in the general elections she fought as Conservative leader, in 1979, 1983 and 1987. The last, smaller, figure is Mr Cameron’s score in 2010. The difference forced him into coalition with the Liberal Democrats.

What were the components of Lady Thatcher’s victories? And can Mr Cameron ever hope to reassemble all the pieces of the puzzle and build something not seen since 1997 – an all-Conservative Government?

It’s possible, of course, that the task is actually impossible. Some analysts believe that Thatcher-scale victories can now never be replicated, that the two-party system is broken, that voters’ affinity with traditional parties is in terminal decline. No one directing the Conservative campaign will accept that argument in public, but their strategy reveals a tacit acceptance of the difficulty of winning really big majorities in the current climate.

The Conservatives now have 304 seats, some 22 short of a simple Commons majority. Their target list of potential gains has only 40 entries. Winning every one would give Mr Cameron a working majority of less than 40; senior strategists say even a majority in single figures would be a “champagne moment”.

lots more  (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10005897/Does-David-Cameron-have-the-stomach-for-a-fight-like-Lady-Thatcher-did.html)


Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 20, 2013, 02:08:44 PM
MT was able to go for one target at a time. But DC had the whole darn shebang to sort out - all at once ! Probably fair to say MT would have acted more strongly and sooner as the DT suggests.
My view is that Cameron and Osborne have flunked duty already - by tiptoeing around benefit cuts and fiscal policy for so long - they should have been very tough, very quick.
Now they've lost support, having opted for death by 1000 cuts and Government borrowing is still rising. Some meaningful savings and benefit cuts are emerging at last - but it's too late.
Cameron will not, (and probably cannot), be bold unless the markets force him to be so. And that might happen !

Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 20, 2013, 04:21:34 PM
The trouble is that it is a Coalition and the Lib Dumbs will always stand in the way of decisive action.  Maybe the only way forward is to fold the Coalition, and let Labour get re-elected.  They can then be held responsible for sorting out the mess that they created.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Roger on April 20, 2013, 06:47:56 PM
I agree - Lib dumbs - very cruel. Maybe we should have had another election after 3 months.
If Labour get in next time - they should leave in place all benefit cuts, cut Corporation Tax, introduce higher rates of income Tax etc.
Should they get in, (I think it unlikely), by that time the Economy will be buried in a corner - they will have to be tough. Market forces will demand it.
And the Euro will have been rejigged somehow by then.
If elected, Labour will have a mess to sort out, largely created by them as you say, but not tackled effectively by the Tory led coalition over  a 5 year period.
Title: Re: David Cameron gives backing to £15million Thatcher museum
Post by: thaiga on April 21, 2013, 12:45:31 PM
David Cameron has given his backing to the £15million museum and library which is planned as a permanent memorial to Margaret Thatcher.

The Prime Minister said the ambitious project, to be modelled on the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum in California, would “ensure [Lady Thatcher’s] legacy lives on”.

His public backing is likely to boost support significantly from other ministers and leading figures for the Margaret Thatcher Library, to be based in or close to Westminster, and which will run training courses and exchange programmes with overseas students.

It will also house artefacts from her time in power - 1979 to 1990 - likely to include a selection of her suits and handbags.

Mr Cameron said: “During her life Margaret Thatcher believed in action - and this memorial will produce real results for generations to come.

“I am delighted that young people will be able to come to the Thatcher Centre and learn about her achievements, and ensure her legacy lives on.”

As fundraising got seriously under way, the project, first revealed by The Sunday Telegraph last week, also received support from leading conservative figures from overseas - including John Howard, the former Australian prime minister, Newt Gingrich, the former speaker of the House of Representatives in the US, Fred Ryan, President Reagan’s chief of staff and Karl Rove, who performed the same role for President George W Bush.

Mr Rove said: “Baroness Thatcher championed freedom around the world and was a strong friend of America in the dangerous days of the Cold War. The Margaret Thatcher Centre will be a timeless tribute to her fighting spirit, unwavering courage, and principled conservative leadership.”

Meanwhile, an opinion poll today shows Conservative activists are more likely to characterise Mr Cameron as the “heir to [Tony] Blair” than the “heir to Thatcher.”

In the survey by the ConservativeHome website, 34 per cent of party members said the Prime Minister was the heir to Mr Blair, with only 11 per cent allying him with Lady Thatcher. Most, however, (55 per cent) said he was following his own individual path.

telegraph.co.uk
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Johnnie F. on April 21, 2013, 02:58:23 PM
Why not use that money for setting up a "Margaret Thatcher Social Foundation for Unemployed Industrial Workers" or similar? I bet a lot of people would rather starve than accept support from a foundation named after her.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on April 21, 2013, 04:48:44 PM
Johnnie what would be the purpose of a MTSFUIW?  Maybe it would just keep people in perpetual idleness at the expense of others.
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Johnnie F. on April 21, 2013, 07:05:28 PM
Maybe it would raise pride among the underprivileged, not to accept help, if it was associated with MT's name.

Rarebird-"Sympathy" music video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXqqCNJAn4c#)

And when you climb into your bed tonight
And when you lock and bolt the door
Just think of those out in the cold and dark
'Cause there's not enough love to go 'round

And sympathy is what we need my friend
And sympathy is what we need
And sympathy is what we need my friend
'Cause there's not enough love to go 'round
No, there's not enough love to go 'round

Now half the world hates the other half
And half the world has all the food
And half the world lies down and quietly starves
'Cause there's not enough love to go 'round

And sympathy is what we need my friend
And sympathy is what we need
And sympathy is what we need my friend
'Cause there's not enough love to go 'round
No, there's not enough love to go 'round
Title: Re: After Margaret Thatcher, who's next?
Post by: thaiga on April 21, 2013, 09:05:36 PM
After watching the BBC’s coverage of Lady Thatcher’s funeral, I’ve been wondering how they’ll handle Nelson Mandela’s inevitable demise

Now that’s all over, I wonder who’s next for the big send-off?

Sad to say, Margaret Thatcher’s old mate Mikhail Gorbachev, who coined the Iron Lady moniker she revelled in, must be a front-runner to follow his heroine through the Pearly Gates some time soon.

Gorby, the only recognisably human Russian politician of his generation – or any other generation – who helped destroy Soviet communism from within, was judged to be too ill to attend Lady T’s funeral. He’s 82 and has recently undergone operations on his heart, spine and prostate.

Doesn’t sound good, does it?

There aren’t many other Cold War warriors who strode the world stage alongside Maggie left alive now.

Cuba’s wrinkly old retired revolutionary Fidel Castro is 86 and looking it.

Fidel recently handed over the family dictatorship business to his 81-year-old kid brother Raul. Surely he can’t go on much longer? In the past few years he’s been patched up more often than one of those ancient Chevys you see puttering around the streets of Havana.

If I were a betting man, though, my money would be on Nelson Mandela. He’s 94 and not at all well, either.

Jacob Zuma, South Africa’s current flaky and frightening president, has urged the nation to pray for him.

Which sounds worryingly like the kiss of death.

After watching the BBC’s coverage of Lady Thatcher’s funeral, I’ve been wondering how they’ll handle Mandela’s inevitable demise.

They’ll fly about 200 staff to Cape Town, headed by the Grand Wizard of World Affairs John Simpson, supported by David Dimbleby, Huw Edwards, Fearne Cotton, Billy Bragg and those two muppets from The One Show. Everyone will wear black, obviously.

On Wednesday the BBC could hardly wait to cut away from the funeral procession to show some sensitive souls in a former mining village in Yorkshire dancing about and setting fire to an effigy of the dead woman. Charming.

Do you imagine they’d be so quick to turn the spotlight on a bunch of white South African nutters out in Biltongsdorp swigging champagne to celebrate Mandela’s passing and reminding interviewers he once founded a terrorist organisation called Spear of the Nation which led a murderous bombing campaign against government targets?

I’m guessing not.

Earlier, they’d managed to find a sour-faced woman who said she’d been a class milk-monitor when Lady Thatcher was Education Secretary and had cut free school milk. She’d been reduced to tears because her classmates had blamed this inhuman punishment on HER.

I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

Laugh, I decided.

source (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/after-margaret-thatcher-whos-next-1844069)

Title: Re: Posters of Margaret Thatcher banned on London Underground
Post by: thaiga on April 25, 2013, 06:36:02 PM
Iron Lady exhibition hits the rails: Posters of Margaret Thatcher banned on London Underground

Posters featuring Margaret Thatcher that were due to be displayed at Westminster Tube station have been banned by advertising bosses.

(http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/ay_108472198-e1366719961104.jpg?w=650#038;h=840)
Regal pose: Margaret Thatcher as Queen Victoria in one of the posters (Picture: Peter Kennard)

The late prime minister was to appear in six portraits that first ran in an exhibition at Gallery Different in central London, which opened on the day of Lady Thatcher’s funeral last Wednesday.

CBS Outdoor, which sells advertising space on the London Underground, said using the images would breach Transport for London (TfL) guidelines.

One poster features the late Tory leader as Queen Victoria and another, an alternative take on Peter Paul Ruben’s The Assumption of the Virgin Mary, replacing Mary’s face with Mrs Thatcher’s.

Westminster station is the closet to the Houses of Parliament.

(http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/ay_108472208-e1366720265808.jpg?w=635#038;h=505)
Pastiche: Margaret Thatcher’s face replaces the Virgin Mary (Picture: Ben Moore)

A CBS Outdoor spokeswoman told the BBC: ‘If an advert has messages or images that relate to public controversy or sensitivity it will not be run.’

The advert was not been referred to the independent regulator, the Advertising Standards Authority, she added.

CBS Outdoor said it reserves the right to refuse a poster design without providing specific reasons under its copy approval policy.

‘CBS Outdoor will endeavour to refer to the guidelines laid down by our franchise partners who include London Underground, London Buses and all of our other bus, rail and tram franchises,’ she added.

TfL said the decision had been CBS Outdoor’s.

‘Our advertising contractor took the view that it could have been considered insensitive to have displayed the posters at the time of Baroness Thatcher’s funeral,’ it added.

‘As her funeral has passed, they will be happy to consider them again.’

Ben Moore, from Art Below, said was hopeful the decision would be overturned or ‘the guidelines will evolve to reflect a more democratic state’.

He added he wanted passengers at Westminster station to enjoy a ‘refreshing alternative of the Thatcher icon’.

source (http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/23/iron-lady-exhibition-hits-the-rails-posters-of-margaret-thatcher-banned-on-the-london-underground-3663065/)

Title: Re: Thatcher wanted UK to withdraw from EU
Post by: thaiga on May 09, 2013, 06:07:47 PM
Baroness Thatcher wanted UK to withdraw from EU, says biographer

Baroness Thatcher believed that Britain should withdraw from the European Union but was persuaded by her advisors to remain silent, it emerged.

Charles Moore, Lady Thatcher’s official biographer, who spent ten years working on the project with the co-operation of the former Prime Minister, revealed her hitherto unknown views during an interview organised by The Spectator Magazine.

Writing in this week’s edition he said he had been asked by the former Sunday Times editor Andrew Neil about her views on Europe after she left office.

“He asked me if, after leaving office, Lady Thatcher had come to the view that Britain should leave the European Union,” he wrote.

“I said yes (I think it happened after the Maastricht Treaty in 1992), although advisers had persuaded her that she should not say this in public since it would have allowed her opponents to drive her to the fringes of public life.”

But Mr Moore, a former editor of the Daily Telegraph, appeared unaware that what he had said was previously unknown.

“I had believed this was widely known, but according to Andrew, it is a story,” he added, before stating that he believed it showed that she was ahead of her time in seeing the current debate on Britain’s membership of the EU.

“My revelation, if such it was, came on the same day as Nigel Lawson’s piece in the Times saying that he would now vote for Britain to leave the EU.

“In this year, the 25th anniversary of (Thatcher’s) Bruges speech, people can see much more clearly that, far from living in ‘a ghetto of sentimentality about the past’ she was thinking harder than her contemporaries about the future of Europe.”

independent.co.uk
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Johnnie F. on May 18, 2013, 10:18:28 PM
I like this comment in "Der Spiegel" on an article about Angela Merkel, a protestant pastor's daughter,  having been granted a private audience with the Pope:


3. Schamlos
ruedigerguenter heute, 15:24 Uhr
Papst wird für Wahlkampf missbraucht. "The witch is alive !!!"

It translates:

shameles

The Pope is getting abused for the election campaign...


Title: Re: Doctor Who vs Mrs Thatcher
Post by: thaiga on November 17, 2013, 01:48:50 PM
Doctor Who vs Mrs Thatcher – the showdown: The late leader appears as an evil tyrant in a 50th anniversary story

The year is 1984 and a genocidal Margaret Thatcher wants to replace the human race with time-travelling aliens from another dimension. There is only one person who can help: not Neil Kinnock, not Arthur Scargill, but Doctor Who.

Travelling in his infinitely accommodating Tardis, the Time Lord has vanquished the Daleks and dispatched the universe's most evil tyrants. But now, in a special story marking his 50th anniversary, Matt Smith's Doctor comes face to face with the Kin, an ancient foe of the Time Lords, which have adopted the persona of the late prime minister and now plan to rid the planet of humans.

In the story written by Neil Gaiman, the alien "Thatcher" has persuaded British homeowners to sell their properties at a vast profit under a plan to rid the planet of humans and replace them with the sinister Kin, an ancient time-travelling enemy of the Time Lords. The Doctor is tasked with rescuing humanity from her devilish plotting.

While left-wing scriptwriters are reported to have inserted anti-Thatcher storylines in the series during the 1980s, according to former Doctor Sylvester McCoy, the new tale is the first official meeting of the two cultural titans.

"Nothing O'Clock" has been written for a Penguin anthology of new short stories featuring all 11 Doctors. Gaiman, the best-selling author who has written two Matt Smith episodes for the BBC series, said he wanted to create "a creepy Doctor Who monster of the kind that we haven't quite seen before".

The creator of the Sandman graphic novel series added: "I wanted to see if I can scare people. I got to do lots of really interesting things including have the voice of the late Margaret Thatcher.

"She's there in 1984 and it was really a strange discovery that actually there's nothing quite as scary as a classic Doctor Who villain with Margaret Thatcher's speech patterns."

In the story, published this week, the fictional Thatcher – in reality the Kin wearing a mask – introduces herself to the Doctor in a familiar "breathy female voice". "You do know who we are, dear?' she asks with familiar menace. "It would be such a shame if you didn't."

Because the Kin has adopted the Thatcher guise, the Doctor says, people "are going to be much more willing to sell big important things, places that belong to the country, not to an individual, when they believe that the leader of their country is asking for them, personally". "Mrs Thatcher" explains that they will create "reservations" for the displaced humans but "they will die out. Well, dear … it won't be pretty". The Doctor rips off the Thatcher mask to reveal a face that "writhed and squirmed".

Readers can discover whether the Doctor foils the alien Thatcher master plan when Gaiman's story is released as an ebook download on Thursday. A physical anthology, including 10 other Doctor Who stories written by authors including Charlie Higson and Children's Laureate Malorie Blackman, will also be published.

Gaiman would like to see a television adaptation of the Thatcher/Doctor face-off. "There was definitely part of me who went, 'You know, wouldn't it be fun to put this on screen?'" he said. "Wouldn't this be fun to see if I can actually make people wee themselves with terror in real life?"

During the 1980s, a Doctor Who television story, The Happiness Patrol, featured a caricature of Thatcher, called Helen A, a big-haired despotic ruler of a human colony on the planet Terra Alpha, played by Sheila Hancock.

Andrew Cartmel, a former Doctor Who scriptwriter who once inserted a speech based on CND material in an episode, wrote a spin-off children's novel, which featured a villain called Rehctaht – Thatcher spelt backwards.

Sylvester McCoy said: "We were a group of politically motivated people and it seemed the right thing to do. Our feeling was that Margaret Thatcher was far more terrifying than any monster the Doctor had encountered."

The BBC marks the 50th anniversary next Saturday with a 75-minute special, The Day of the Doctor, starring Matt Smith, David Tennant, John Hurt and Billie Piper.

independent.co.uk (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/doctor-who-vs-mrs-thatcher--the-showdown-the-late-leader-appears-as-an-evil-tyrant-in-a-50th-anniversary-story-8944625.html)
Title: Re: Thatcher judged best post-war prime minister ♦ Tony Blair came third
Post by: thaiga on January 03, 2014, 03:01:26 PM
Margaret Thatcher judged to be best post-war prime minister by politicians of all parties

Iron Lady valued for decisiveness, over traits such as honesty
Tony Blair came third in poll of 158 MPs by University of London
Of 13 post-war PMs, excluding David  Cameron, Gordon Brown came last

Politicians of all parties have voted Margaret Thatcher the most successful prime minister since the Second World War.

The Iron Lady was valued for her decisiveness, with most MPs citing this as a more important trait than principles, honesty or intelligence.

Mrs Thatcher, who spent 11 years at No10,  beat Labour’s Clement Attlee, who oversaw the creation of the NHS.

Dr Nicholas Allen, senior lecturer in politics at Royal Holloway, University of London, said: ‘The Iron Lady remain divisive, idolised by some, condemned by others.’

Tony Blair came third in the poll of 158 MPs by the university’s politics department.

Winston Churchill came fourth when judged on his second term from 1951 to 1955.

Of the MPs who took part, 69 were Tories, 67 Labour, 14 Lib Dem and eight from other parties.

Of the 13 post-war PMs, excluding David  Cameron, Gordon Brown came last.

Party affiliation was generally the strongest predictor of a leader’s success.

The exception to the rule was Edward Heath, the Conservative PM who took Britain into Europe.
Heath was unseated by Thatcher as party leader in 1975 and was rated more highly by Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs than by Conservatives.

Dr Allen added: 'It’s not surprising that MPs perceive Thatcher, Attlee and Blair to be the most successful prime ministers.

'Attlee and Thatcher both presided over fundamental shifts in British politics, while Blair, like Thatcher, was a proven election winner.

'When it comes to winning big majorities, David Cameron still has much to prove.'

dailymail.co.uk (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532456/Margaret-Thatcher-judged-best-post-war-prime-minister-politicians-parties.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: sicho on January 04, 2014, 09:02:38 AM
The Iron Lady was valued for her decisiveness, with most MPs citing this as a more important trait than principles, honesty or intelligence.

That just about sums up politics!
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: thaiga on November 01, 2015, 04:28:05 PM
Floating round the media today - What's the nickname of Margaret Thatcher

Ramkhamhaeng U's exam. "What's the nickname of Margaret Thatcher?" Stupid Bitch & Dumb Doll are in the answer choices. or can you think of a better one.

(http://koratfart.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10747/CSYxB9pUAAAjOTV.jpg)
Pic@twitter.com/Ryn_writes
Title: Re: Margaret Thatcher
Post by: Taman Tun on November 01, 2015, 04:36:00 PM
Her Royal Highness, Devoted Wife of Denis, Mother, Scourge of the Socialists, Greatest Prime Minister of All Time, the list is endless………

Wonder what names there would be for T. Blair or G. Brown?