Author Topic: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals  (Read 7139 times)

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Offline thaiga

foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« on: May 10, 2015, 06:22:07 PM »
Government concerned with foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals

BANGKOK, 10 May 2015 (NNT) - Prime Minister Gen. Prayut Chan-o-cha is concerned with how foreign patients have been ripped off by Thai hospitals.

According to Government spokesman Yongyuth Mayalarp, the Prime Minister has been aware of complaints related to inordinately high medical bills local private hospitals have collected from foreign patients, and he has been worried about such situations.

PM Prayut has accordingly instructed all related agencies to launch an investigation and identify the solution to this problem, Mr. Yongyuth said.

Three agencies are to take part in the process, including the Medical Council of Thailand, the Health Ministry and the Internal Trade Department, he added.

All of them will hold a discussion to determine the medical fees that are fair to both patients and hospitals and also to work on the possible amendment of related rules and regulations before reporting the results to the Cabinet.

NNT
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Offline Not A Buffalo

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 01:22:10 AM »
Sounds like a good plan....  Will anything come from it though!

Say could a few of you longer term Koratites let me know who you turn to for Medical Insurance for yourself in Thailand?

Rgds Buffy
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 01:13:01 PM »
Hi buffy 2 yrs ago i got the insurance for farangs @2,400 per annum from a local thai goverment hospital,if your prepared to wait all day that's fine plus there's no cost of medics if needed.

On my first visit to the hospital i wanted to see the ENT doctor, i got there early one monday morning and was told to sit and wait to see the ENT specialist, after waiting 4 hrs i spoke to a nurse and said how long will it be, she said what's the problem, i explained waiting to see ent, her reply was, ent is tues & fri. only.
Well that was enough for me.

I had a major op a few yrs back, bangkok hospital, the surgeons fee was 30,000, i was advised to stay 2 nights the total bill was 85,000 + The service was great but yes that's expensive.

I enquired with AIA the middle range insurance they quoted 50,000 per annum. I'm under the impression the private hospitals do like you to have insurance, then they can wack it on.

I hope you stay healthy buffy, GOOD LUCK M8
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Not A Buffalo

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2015, 01:24:16 PM »
Yes exactly Thaiga!  I hope the same too - both for me and for You  :cheers
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2015, 01:46:28 PM »
There's a thread here with a bit more info that might benefit some   
                            ⇩⇩                   
                    koratfart.com
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 03:04:32 PM »
Going back to waiting times in goverment hospitals, i think it's much the same all over.
The proportion of patients being treated within four hours at NHS hospital emergency departments in England was 84.3% for the week ending 11 January.


Public Health Minister to Send 1,800 New Doctors to Northern Thailand Hospitals

Public Health Minister acting Permanent-Secretary Dr.Surachet Satitniramai has reported that the Ministry of Public Health is preparing to dispatch more than 1,800 new doctors to northern Thailand hospitals this year.

According to Dr. Surachet Satitniramai, the 1,863 new doctors who make up 78 percent of all recent graduates from medical schools countrywide, were sponsored by the ministry’s special projects department aimed at alleviating the scarcity of doctors in remote areas.

Dr. Surachet confirmed that the dispatch of doctors this year would differ from previous occasions, in that the ministry had established two committees to supervise the placements of doctors and properly manage the proportion of personnel in line with the needs of each region.

The new doctors will perform their duties at central and general hospitals as well as major community hospitals, with senior doctors as their mentors. The Ministry of Public Health thus believes that the scheme can identify the true needs of each area and provide the new doctors with an opportunity to utilize their skills.

chiangraitimes
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline sowhat

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 08:52:40 PM »
There's a thread here with a bit more info that might benefit some   
                            ⇩⇩                   
                    koratfart.com
thanks for that, it is something i must get done before december. from what i understand the older you are the more the cost.that figures.

50,000 bht oooh that is about a grand. good info, thanks again SOWHAT :cheers
 

Offline Chimera

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 06:10:55 AM »
Hi buffy 2 yrs ago i got the insurance for farangs @2,400 per annum from a local thai goverment hospital,if your prepared to wait all day that's fine plus there's no cost of medics if needed.

On my first visit to the hospital i wanted to see the ENT doctor, i got there early one monday morning and was told to sit and wait to see the ENT specialist, after waiting 4 hrs i spoke to a nurse and said how long will it be, she said what's the problem, i explained waiting to see ent, her reply was, ent is tues & fri. only.
Well that was enough for me.

I had a major op a few yrs back, bangkok hospital, the surgeons fee was 30,000, i was advised to stay 2 nights the total bill was 85,000 + The service was great but yes that's expensive.


I enquired with AIA the middle range insurance they quoted 50,000 per annum. I'm under the impression the private hospitals do like you to have insurance, then they can wack it on.

I hope you stay healthy buffy, GOOD LUCK M8

Same same surgeon's fee, total bill for a back op 107K at BHK, i was in for 4 nights. I did need to stress i had NO MONEY and NO INSURANCE so a large unwarranted bill would be a problem and i pressed them for a fixed price, the negotiations got quite heated at times as i told them i'm not writing you a blank cheque.

I have to say the room and care was 5 star, i was happy. I would suggest to all that you adopt the same attitude with them, they're a business which deals with making money, you the patient are just the facilitator for that money.

Regarding the goverment hospital scheme for farangs, Maharat told wifey it was no longer available. 

 
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 12:43:23 PM »
you the patient are just the facilitator for that money

BKK hospital

I was asked for a 10k deposit before they would start. They come to my room to collect the full amount before i left, just a precaution you don't slip out the backdoor.

st.marys quote was a lot cheaper but i felt my life was worth much more than the money.I met both surgeons and decided on the one at bangkok hospital who spoke some english, and answered all my questions.  But with st.marys the whole conversation was in thai with mrs.t.

stay healthy chimera it's an expensive business. :cheers

PS: anyone had spinal block spinal anaesthetic - who can share experiences st.marys or bkk hospital
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 05:40:30 PM »
I guess it's not just foreigners being ripped off

Petition seeks controls on private hospital fees

The Thai Medical Error Network on Tuesday submitted a petition with 33,000 signatures to the government, calling for the establishment of a special panel to control medical fees charged by private hospitals.

The network is campaigning for the government to set up a committee to control medical fees after receiving complaints, with supporting evidence, that private hospitals have overcharged patients.

FULL ARTICLE: Bangkokpost
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Chimera

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 06:39:39 AM »
you the patient are just the facilitator for that money

BKK hospital

I was asked for a 10k deposit before they would start. They come to my room to collect the full amount before i left, just a precaution you don't slip out the backdoor.

st.marys quote was a lot cheaper but i felt my life was worth much more than the money.I met both surgeons and decided on the one at bangkok hospital who spoke some english, and answered all my questions.  But with st.marys the whole conversation was in thai with mrs.t.

stay healthy chimera it's an expensive business. :cheers

PS: anyone had spinal block spinal anaesthetic - who can share experiences st.marys or bkk hospital

Thankyou for your kind words, needless to say i wish the same for you.

They required a 50K deposit from me but were quite ok when it came to settle the balance, i had to chase them as i wanted to check out  ::) I too went to St Marys first but was not impressed with the doc, he failed to remain in the hospital for my appointment, just went home as he had no in between appointments :uhm.

I also had a recco for the surgeon at BHK who spoke and understood English, he was very professional and i thought he'll do for me  :salute   
 

Offline Chimera

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 06:43:43 AM »
I guess it's not just foreigners being ripped off

Petition seeks controls on private hospital fees

The Thai Medical Error Network on Tuesday submitted a petition with 33,000 signatures to the government, calling for the establishment of a special panel to control medical fees charged by private hospitals.

The network is campaigning for the government to set up a committee to control medical fees after receiving complaints, with supporting evidence, that private hospitals have overcharged patients.

FULL ARTICLE: Bangkokpost


I have no faith whatsoever in this addressing the problem, TIT.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2015, 02:08:38 PM »

Regarding the goverment hospital scheme for farangs, Maharat told wifey it was no longer available. 

I believe that is correct, since the take over.............i have just read

The national health insurance scheme for foreigners will not be continued after the current policies expire, although immigrants from ASEAN countries will still be able to get government insurance.

Now for the contradiction.

Ministry to look into high medical service fee complaints

The Health Ministry stated that everything will be considered thoroughly due to the fact that the issue is now at the center of people’s attention, which means that the process may be somewhat lengthy.

Dr Rajata acknowledged the private hospital overcharging of patients and said investigation was underway and promised that the issue would be resolved quickly.

Evidence received by the network showed private hospitals are overcharging their patients.

englishnews.thaipbs.or.th
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Chimera

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 06:27:25 AM »
I believe that is correct, since the take over.............i have just read

The national health insurance scheme for foreigners will not be continued after the current policies expire, although immigrants from ASEAN countries will still be able to get government insurance.

Now for the contradiction.

Ministry to look into high medical service fee complaints

The Health Ministry stated that everything will be considered thoroughly due to the fact that the issue is now at the center of people’s attention, which means that the process may be somewhat lengthy.

Dr Rajata acknowledged the private hospital overcharging of patients and said investigation was underway and promised that the issue would be resolved quickly.

Evidence received by the network showed private hospitals are overcharging their patients.

englishnews.thaipbs.or.th


Now what exactly are they overcharging for, everything or only selected services. I don't call the surgeons fee of 30K excessive at all. The danger with these private hospitals is "bill padding", the good old Thai trait, just about anything that can be associated with your operation/treatment will appear on your bill whether used or not, how can you dispute without medical knowledge ? The cost of prescribed meds is ridiculous in the extreme, easily reaching 100/200% of Siam pharmacy prices, and you don't get to ok them before use.

One thing you need to be aware of is the forms that you are asked to sign on admittance, one of these forms has a statement to the effect that you cannot argue the cost of your treatment after the event when settling the bill, you just have to accept it and pay up.

Be careful and informed if you use these private hospitals, they are not your friends, just businesses making as much money out of you as possible.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2015, 11:54:48 AM »
Yes chimera it's a business

No the surgeons fee was not excessive, but over 55k for 2 night's was a bit over the top.
I dread to think what intensive care would be.

Well it's certainly hitting the media, here's another much the same article from the nation

Boonyarit Kalayanamit, director-general at the Internal Trade Department, said although the department was responsible for the price of goods, the cost of medicine and medical services is the responsibility of the Public Health by law. Thus, the department will have to decide if it should call for the price of medicine and medical services to be controlled under the Price and Service Act.

"The Public Health Ministry can ask for the Internal Trade Department's cooperation to help control the price of medicine under its lists to ensure fair treatment for consumers," Boonyarit said.

The Public Health Ministry already has a list of generic medicine so that it can control the prices at public hospitals. The ministry could adapt its list of medicines to control the prices at private hospitals as well, Boonyarit said.

In addition, under the current price act, the cost of medicine should be clearly labelled on medicine packages to allow consumers to make a choice.

In a bid to control the price of medical services at private hospitals, every hospital is required to clearly show patients the price of medicine and medical services so that patients can make an informed decision about where they want to be treated.

FULL ARTICLE: The nation
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2015, 10:59:29 AM »
An article in the nation today

Regarding emergency medical services, he said they must be free of charge at every private hospital, as the cost can be reimbursed by the National Health Security Office.

FULL ARTICLE: The nation
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Chimera

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 07:33:18 AM »
Yes chimera it's a business

No the surgeons fee was not excessive, but over 55k for 2 night's was a bit over the top.
I dread to think what intensive care would be.

Well it's certainly hitting the media, here's another much the same article from the nation

Boonyarit Kalayanamit, director-general at the Internal Trade Department, said although the department was responsible for the price of goods, the cost of medicine and medical services is the responsibility of the Public Health by law. Thus, the department will have to decide if it should call for the price of medicine and medical services to be controlled under the Price and Service Act.

"The Public Health Ministry can ask for the Internal Trade Department's cooperation to help control the price of medicine under its lists to ensure fair treatment for consumers," Boonyarit said.

The Public Health Ministry already has a list of generic medicine so that it can control the prices at public hospitals. The ministry could adapt its list of medicines to control the prices at private hospitals as well, Boonyarit said.

In addition, under the current price act, the cost of medicine should be clearly labelled on medicine packages to allow consumers to make a choice.

In a bid to control the price of medical services at private hospitals, every hospital is required to clearly show patients the price of medicine and medical services so that patients can make an informed decision about where they want to be treated.

FULL ARTICLE: The nation


Well i can tell you cos i asked at BHK just in case anything went wrong with the op or i had an infection, it was anything between 30K - 50K PER NIGHT, be prepared.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 10:50:23 AM »
well here's an update on the hospital reforms from the Bangkokpost but no mention of expats

The network said in the statement it had suggested the government implement its proposed short-term measures within a month. The measures include five points:

1. Private hospitals must not collect a deposit for healthcare fees from relatives of an emergency patient or ask them to sign a document to accept responsibility for medical bills within the first 72 hours after admission.

2. After the 72-hour period, the hospital must transfer the patient to a hospital where his or her healthcare is covered by the universal healthcare scheme.

3. In a situation where there are no available beds, the National Health Security Office (NHSO), Social Security office and the Comptroller General's Department must step in to help provide a bed for the patient. If they fail to do so and the patient needs to be transferred back to the private hospital, the three agencies must be responsible for the patient’s medical costs.

4. Penalties shall be determined for violators of items 1 and 2.

5. The private hospitals shall use the same consent form for treatment and this form must be separated from an agreement-to-pay form.

Also dissolve the Medical Council’s elected board and select new board members who do not have a conflict of interest. 

FULL ARTICLE: Bangkokpost
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 11:15:53 AM »
Moves to control medical treatments and drug costs will be difficult

PRIVATE hospitals have warned that government attempts to control the cost of medical treatments and medicine will be difficult, as various facilities have different operational costs and private hospitals - unlike pharmacies - shoulder heavier costs in the dispersal of drugs.

They called on the government to study the facts before implementing any controls, saying it must be remembered that private hospitals in Thailand are up to 35 per cent cheaper than private hospitals in Singapore.

After meeting to discuss the matter at the Department of Health Service Support (DHSS) yesterday, Dr Chalerm Hanpanich, president of the Private Hospitals Association, said pricing at public and private hospitals was not comparable due to cost differences.

Private facilities had personnel and other costs, he said, such as building construction, land purchases and investment fund repayments - while public hospitals were funded by the state.

Affirming that private hospitals abided by the 1998 Sanatorium Act, he said: "All Thais have either one of three health security funds to cover medical bills anyway. And private facilities are just an alternative for people."

Chalerm said he would wait to see what a central committee set up by the Public Health Ministry last week to tackle the issue comes up with first before deciding whether to set a price ceiling on private hospital medicines.

The association's secretary-general, Dr Pongpat Patanavanich, said that while private facilities treated emergency patients in accordance with the policy of free treatment for life-and-death cases and referred such people to their subscribed hospitals, the government and the public should understand that private hospitals also shoulder expenses and costs.

"Such a policy should also be clear in terms of the expense range for emergency illnesses and treatments so the private hospitals won't suffer heavy losses," he said. "We don't want to make a profit from people's lives but we also want you to understand the investment [our members have made]."

Another meeting will be held today to discuss the urgent-treatment policy.

Negotiating medicine prices

The head of the National Legislative Assembly's subcommittee on the standard of medical treatment pricing, Dr Sarana Boonbaichaiyapruck, said an ongoing study on nine private hospitals had found that outpatients' flu treatment cost from Bt2,000 to Bt3,000 compared to Bt500 to Bt800 for public hospitals.

Dr Pratheep Sajjamit, a former expert on medical expenses at an insurance company, said the Food and Drug Administration could control central pricing for medicines at private hospitals and he called for the establishment of a central committee to set drug prices.

Pratheep cited his work experience in negotiating medicine prices, saying the cost of medicines varied depending on where they were purchased - a drug sold for Bt100 in a rural area could be sold for Bt80 in the city and Bt45 near a medical school.

"No place on Earth would let a hospital charge drug prices without controls," he said.

The cost of other expenses should not be included in a medicine's price, he added.

DHSS deputy chief Dr Thares Karasnairaviwong said it was initially agreed that private hospitals would clearly state treatment prices while a website (www.thailandmedicalhub.net) would show 80 medical treatment prices.

Public Health Minister Dr Rajata Rajatanavin agreed last week to address the problem of unreasonably high prices charged by some private hospitals at the request of Thai Medical Error Network president Preeyanan Lorsermvattana.

After accepting the network's petition, which garnered 33,000 signatures, Rajata moved to set up the central committee to probe the matter.

The nation

"We don't want to make a profit from people's lives but we also want you to understand the investment [our members have made]."  -  so what does that mean
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: Panel studying hospital pricing readies a few solutions
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2015, 12:17:36 PM »
Panel studying hospital pricing readies a few solutions

The committee tasked with tackling high medicine prices at private hospitals, plans to offer two options, namely requiring that doctors at private hospitals write prescriptions for patients to buy medicines at a pharmacy or that the medicine prices be kept at a "realistic" level and separate from other fees.

After a meeting with related agencies at the Public Health Ministry yesterday, Dr Supachai Kunaratanapruk, who is a member of the Medical Council of Thailand and chairman of the committee, said they had agreed on a four-point conclusion.

He said that after holding another discussion next week, the committee will offer this proposal to the larger panel led by the public health minister and commerce minister to consider later, he added.

Firstly, the solution proposal will have two options. One would be to maintain medicine prices as per market mechanisms and have doctors write prescriptions for patients to purchase the medicines at pharmacies, whose quality should also be improved to meet the standard. The other would be to get private hospitals separate the price of medicines from other fees and put price tags that reflect the factory rate.

Secondly, the Pharmacy Council, the Food and Drug Administration, the Department of Internal Trade, academics and people sector would be asked to negotiate the options with private hospitals over a week or two.

Thirdly, the issue of private hospitals charging emergency patients would be handled by the National Institute of Emergency Medicine (NIEM). The institute would set a definition of "emergency cases" and notify the public about it, and that all hospitals would be required to treat emergency patients for the critical 72 hours, he explained.

After the initial 72 hours, NIEM will contact the respective patients' healthcare scheme to refer them to proper facilities. If the patient referral system cannot be passed on to the patients, then NIEM will be responsible for the expenses, he said, adding that if the patients refused to move, then they would have to cover the bills themselves.

The institute will also negotiate the medical treatment rate with private hospitals and set a standard treatment time, he said. This negotiation should be completed in a week or two. NIEM will also set a joint committee with three healthcare schemes to handle issues stemming from this matter, he added.

Fourthly, medical treatments for 77 non-emergency illnesses would be publicised in the Department of Health Service Support's website with links to private hospitals, so people can look up and decide before seeking treatment. This part should be completed in a month, he said.

The nation

Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

 



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