Author Topic: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand  (Read 6948 times)

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Offline jonesy2648

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Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« on: April 23, 2013, 08:05:35 PM »
Hello People,
As I visit Thailand frequently and have an established residence with my Thai wife in the outskirts of Korat City we both  intend to relocate there permanently after I officially retire in August this year.

My wife and I are currently in Perth Western Australia and hope to move back in late august 2013.

I have no idea what visa I will need and if it is a retirement visa how often are you allowed to come and go on that visa, for example I believe to keep receiving your aged pension from Australia I will need to travel back to Australia ever 13 or 26 weeks to be able to remain elligable for the Australian aged pension payments.

My questions are: Is there any Australian Ex-pats currently living in Korat or anywhere in Thailand who can offer me some reliable information concerning this,
People who have already gone through this process and know what needs to be done.

I do realize that the Australian Government website  Centre link gives a lot of information regarding receiving the aged pension while overseas but the website is somewhat confusing and I would rather hear it from the horses mouth so to speak, from people who are actually IN Thailand.


If anybody could give me some correct and reliable information regarding ANYTHING I need to know concerning this, I would greatly appreciate it
Thank you in advance,
regards,
Jonesy2648

I do hope that I have posted this topic in the correct category, please correct me if I am wrong
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 08:44:04 PM »
Hi Jonesy2648,

welcome to our forum!

As visa you need an extendable one, that is a "Non-O". You can get those for multiple entries up to 1 year. Each entry entitles you to a stay of 90 days. Before or at expiry of the 90 days' stay you can make a visa-run to a neighboring country, that is leave Thailand and then come back in, starting the 90 days all over again. Or before it expires you can get an extension of stay to 1 year from your date of entry at the Immigration Office in Korat, either as spouse to a Thai or as pensioner. As pensioner is less bureaucratic. All you need is proof of a pension of at least THB 65,000 a month (via certificate of the Australian embassy) or a deposit of THB 800,000 at a Thai bank (already there for at least 3 months before applying for extension of stay). As spouse to a Thai you need a monthly income of THB 40,000 or THB 400,000 as bank deposit. But getting that "marriage-visa" means a lot more paper work and visits to the Immigration Office.

There is also the option of getting a "Non-OA"-Visa already in Australia: that is already approved for a stay of 1 year, and can also be extended further. Ask at the Thai embassy for that. If you leave Thailand during your approved stay and don't have a valid visa for another entry anymore, you either need a new visa, or you have to get a "re-entry permit" at the Immigration Office before you leave to be let in again on your already approved extension of stay. When you're living here you'll have to report your address every 90 days to the Immigration Office, that is show up there, fill out a form and get a receipt in your passport. It usually just takes minutes.

Sorry, can't tell you about pensions from Australia.

 :cheers

JF
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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 08:51:06 PM »
There are some Australians in Korat itself and there's one lives near to me. You need to meet them and ask your questions. You will find them at the farang bars!

As for the Thai visa, check the Australian Thai Consulate website. Your options are non-immigrant O visa (running over the border and back every 90 days), married O visa (report to local Immigration office every 90 days) and retirement visa if you are aged 50 plus (report to local Immigration office every 90 days). For the second, you will need to get a re-entry permit before each trip home. For retirement visa, I think leaving the country is more difficult. The retirement visa extension routine each year is easier. There are minimum requirements for either income or Thai bank balance. The website will give you the detail.

Is your Australian health care likely to remain operative if you live permanently here? Whatever the case, it's wise to buy good health insurance here. You can't be sure that you would be able to get home in a dire emergency and major treatment soaks up the cash reserves.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 09:18:32 PM »
Hi jonesy welcome m8 and good luck.

I found this on a forum goes back a bit nov. 2011. I never new you had to be a resident to get your pension
in australia.

Aussie Pensioners being forced to live in Australia
By Chris on November 21, 2011 in Information

A close friend of mine Eric is being forced to return to Australia by the Australian government just to qualify for the old age pension. This after he spent 40 years working and paying taxes to the government that funds his old age pension. Now he can’t live out his last years in Thailand because of some twat at Centerlink won’t approve his application unless he lives in Australia for the next 2 years to satisfy their requirements.

Imagine this: you worked your whole life in Australia never going overseas never leaving the country and you get laid off by your company during the financial crises your 64 years old you can’t get another job so you say to yourself well that’s it, time to retire. A friend suggests you take a trip to Thailand. Wow imagine the excitement of that guy when he lands on Sukhimvit stays at the Nana Hotel, he wished he’d been laid off years ago. He returns a few weeks later with a few stories from Pattaya now sits in his flat bored to death. “I’m going to retire to Thailand” he says to himself.

Even though he’d been working his whole life he doesn’t have that much to show for it so he sells his flat (apartment) and returns to Thailand and goes through all the immigration rigmarole in order to get the necessary visas to live in Thailand. His satisfied his financial requirements for Thailand by selling his flat bought a place in Udon Thani where he lives with his new 25y/o Thai wife and life couldn’t get much sweeter from him. His funds are still limited but his waiting out for the pension that will see him live out his days here.

You’d think that would be the end of the story and life is great for this guy, that is of course until he returns to Australia to lodge his Age Pension application and gets denied!!

According to Centerlink he doesn’t meet the requirements any longer because he is no longer a resident of Australia. He lives overseas and the only reason he came back to Australia was to get the Age pension. He has no kids, parents are gone and no siblings. He has no phone bill no water bill and no apartment and hasn’t been in Australia for the past 2 years so he is no longer eligible. Before he can make the application again he has to move back to Australia and live there for the next 2 years before he can apply again and get approved.

What kind of country does this to retirees!

There are many different variations to this story no one has the same but the ending is almost always the same. And even after it’s approved once you leave the country they start taking away money after a few months because you no longer live in Australia (but honestly who can live there now on an age pension almost impossible it’s so expensive!).

So my mate Eric is now back in Australia living with a friend no income because the government won’t give him the pension and just a few months ago life was awesome. He can’t even get his wife to Australia.

So i’m writing this article to let everyone know exactly what they should do to get their age pension from Centerlink Australia while living in Thailand. The biggest advice i’ve got from retirees in Thailand on the Australian Age Pension is to bend the Truth don’t outright lie but provide proof of the bent truth. You can’t lie to centrelink it’s australia’s second biggest company after the Tax office, if you have a bank account they know about it, you leave the country they know about it, centrelink knows more about you that you do yourself! But here are my tips for guaranteeing you get approved even after living in Thailand.

Tips for getting the Australian Age Pension living in Thailand

The reason why they make you illegible even though your an Australian citizen because they are trying to prove your not a resident and it’s the residency requirements that can get you denied. To prove you are a non-resident they have to show clearly that you are a resident of another country like Thailand, don’t give them the proof, don’t tell them nothing about your situation that they can’t prove, say you travelled to Thailand don’t say you live there!

   1. Avoid having a permanent address in Thailand, that means don’t buy property! To buy property in Thailand you’ll have to transfer a large sum through your Australian bank account in order to make the purchase, yes Centerlink can find that information with a blink of an eye!
   2. Make sure you still have a permanent address in Australia! You don’t have to buy property on an age pension not a good idea especially if your not living in it. To do this put a mates phone bill or electric bill in your name, even if you have to pay it this way you have proof that you have a permanent address in Australia. Your going to have to prove it more than they do.
   3. Slowly bring your money out of Australia before you retire! If you live in Thailand this is easy because there are always people you know coming here, tell them to bring 5 grand here 5 grand there and slowly build your bank roll over here. Doing it this way the government can’t track it. Even using Paypal to make the transfers to a Paypal account here they can’t track either.
   4. Don’t get married! If you marry a Thai girl the Aussie government will find out about it and that strengthens their case not theirs. Avoid relationships! I know it’s hard but make sure the person hanging around is just a friend not a partner.
   5. Don’t have any paperwork overseas, pay cash for everything never use a bank to transfer funds, don’t even transfer funds to Thailand, only use cash! It’s not realistic that centerlink will know that you’ve been living in an apartment in Chiang Mai but it will keep you focused on where you REALLY live. Which needs to be Australia not Thailand.
   6. Keep your main bank account in Australia. Yes you might be able to get your pension or disability or whatever paid to your bank in Thailand, just don’t do it, it doesn’t help your case at all!
   7. Try to start spending more time in Australia. I know that sucks but we all go back, and when you do try to spend as much time in Australia as you can at least a few weeks or more.
   8. Go to the doctors on each return to Australia. Everyone on a pension or trying to get the Age pension in Australia should be going to the doctor with each return to Australia. It’s a good idea but it does help your case, say you go to the doctor to make sure your fit to TRAVEL to Asia and not to live there. Believe me this works. Tell the doctor what you need.
   9. Try going to other countries not just Thailand. The more different stamps you have in your passport the better your case is that your travelling through asia and not living in one place. If you have a few stamps from different countries it does help prove your case.

Requirements for the Australian Age Pension

To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim.

To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as:

    * an Australian citizen, or
    * the holder of a permanent resident visa, or
    * a New Zealand citizen who was in Australia on 26 February 2001, or for 12 months in the 2 years immediately before that date, or was assessed as “protected” before 26 February 2004.

To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10-year qualifying Australian residence requirements, unless:

    * you are claiming under an international social security agreement, or
    * you are a refugee or former refugee, or
    * you were getting Partner Allowance, Widow Allowance or Widow B Pension immediately before turning Age Pension age, or
    * you are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents and you had 2 years residency immediately before claiming Age Pension.

Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years.

Source
Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 09:46:55 PM »
That sounds real tough! Isn't there an option of a "pension severance", getting a lump sum and be finished with them, free to live where one wants to?
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline thaiga

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 10:01:48 PM »
  As from1 January 2013

Q. John

I am struggling to make ends meet on the pension. I don’t own my own home and am thinking of moving overseas, either to Thailand or the Philippines. But how will such a move affect my Centrelink entitlements?

A. John, many older Australians burdened with the increasing cost of living in Australia and the struggle to make ends meet on the Age Pension or their savings, are looking to relocate overseas where money tends to go a little further. Of course, if you rely on a pension from the Department of Human Services, then you may have to be careful about where you go and how long you spend there. It is worth noting that the rules on pension payments while you are outside of Australia are due to change on 1 January 2013. As you do not mention which pension payment you receive, below is some guidance on how your payment may be affected based on these changes, however, you should contact Centrelink before making any decisions.

Age Pension
It is possible to get the Age Pension for the whole time you’re overseas, whether you have left Australia on a temporary or permanent basis. If you remain outside Australia for longer than 26 weeks, your pension will be reduced to a proportional rate based on your ‘Australian working life residence’. This is the number of years you have resided in Australia since age 16 to Age Pension age. If you have lived in Australia for 25 years (300 months), then you are paid the full rate of Age Pension to which you are entitled. If, for example, you have only resided in Australia for 20 years, then you will be paid 241/300 of the Age Pension (20x12 plus an extra month). If you leave Australia permanently, the rate of Pension Supplement you receive will reduce, or if leaving on a temporary basis, it will be reduced after six weeks of departure.

For those, however, who have been transferred to or granted an Age Pension less than two years ago, your pension will be stopped when you go overseas. There are plans to increase the amount of years from 25 to 35 under the ‘Australian working life residence’ from 1 January 2014. Those already living overseas on 1 January 2014 will maintain the 25 years as a base calculation, but should they return to Australia for more than six months and subsequently leave, they will be subject to the new regulations.

http://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/news/will-i-get-a-pension-overseas

Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2013, 12:07:55 AM »
I'm beginning to understand that the Old Age Pension in Australia is a combination of welfare scheme (social contract) and pension scheme (generations contract), where you don't get the full pension at living overseas, when you haven't fulfilled your duties in the pension scheme. They use the years of residence; other countries use the years you have been employed and paying into the pension scheme, supporting the elder generations. But 25 years doesn't sound so little. A normal work life is usually 40 or more years. Other countries require that for paying full pensions - and supplement low pensions from the welfare scheme of course to residents only. Of course they want money from that to be spent domestically and flow back into their own economy and tax system.
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Offline Roger

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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2013, 06:57:28 AM »
Good morning Jonesy. Aussies are often to be found in the The Walrus Bar in the Suebsiri Rd area, on the left on the way to the mid-sized Tesco. Steve the owner is an Aussie and it is a friendly place. Good luck !
 

Offline jonesy2648

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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2013, 08:33:15 AM »
 :cheers Good Morning Roger,
Thank you for the info, You are right about the Walrus Pub, I visited the Walrus on my last trip and found Steve the owner to be a really friendly guy, the service, the food and the  friendly atmosphere was great and I did meet a few Australians, Brits and Americans there.

It was good to talk the same language although my wife being Thai has taught me the basic Thai language which I am getting better at all the time. :cheers
 Cheers, Barry.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2013, 10:44:28 AM »
I'm beginning to understand that the Old Age Pension in Australia is a combination of welfare scheme (social contract) and pension scheme (generations contract)...

When I read this I get to the conclusion that it must be only a welfare scheme:

Quote
Eligibility for Age Pension

To qualify for Age Pension, you must satisfy age and residence requirements. How much Age Pension you will get depends on your income and assets and other circumstances.

Therefore I think it great, if they even pay full when you're staying overseas after at least 25 years of residency in Australia. But I do wonder how they can calculate the amount "on your income and assets", which you might hold overseas.

The maximum payment rate of Age Pension for a single is $733.70 per fortnight, i.e. $1589.68 per month, roughly THB 47.000, unless you can claim pension supplements.

The amount below THB 65,000 will rule out the retirement extension of the "Non-O" visa. It might be sufficient for the marriage extension. But since you need a certificate from your embassy, which you might better not ask for, if you're afraid they cut your pension when alerted to your permanent residence in Thailand, the only option for that is the THB 400,000 in a Thai bank account, which might bring you into conflict when declaring assets for the calculation of the pension...

If you gotta be back in Australia every 26 weeks, the other option left is the multiple-entry 'Non-O" visa for 180 days with visa-runs every 90 days. Problem of that is that it might not be granted more than once a year, i. e. two in succession. You might have to stay half a year in Australia or another country, before you get one again.
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Offline jonesy2648

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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2013, 05:45:28 PM »
Thanks Johnny F for the valuable information regarding Visas Much Appreciated
 Cheers, Jonesy.
 

Offline jonesy2648

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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 05:53:15 PM »
Hi Saf, Thank you for the info, and yes my Australian health insurance would still be operative in Thailand I also comprehensive health insurance with Bangkok Hospital just down the road from the mall, I must also ad that my impression of that hospital is five star compared to hospitals here in Perth WA, Very clean, Very friendly, very professional and you do not get totally ripped off like you do here in Oz.

Cheers, Jonesy.
 

Offline jonesy2648

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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2013, 07:08:10 PM »
Thanks Thaiga, The info that you have provided is fairly accurate and still relevant , I too have been in the workforce since I was 14 years old starting as an apprentice electrician, that's nearly 51 years as a taxpayer but it is typical of the government here in Australia as when you reach 40 its very hard to find a job, when you reach 50 no-one wants you and finally when you reach your sixties its impossible to be employed unless you become self employed. Talk about disguised age discrimination, here in Australia its rife! they cant tell you that you are too old so they make up the normal crap and say sorry your application was unsuccessful in this instant, most of those replies are sent by faceless pimple nosed kids, So in reality it does not matter a rats how long you have paid tax here.

I really feel for your friend Eric having been forced to return to Australia, the Centre link rules and regulations stink! especially because a Brit can come here to Australia and retire receiving the British pension and at the same time apply for and receive the Australian Pension so in effect receive both pensions at the same time! so where is the fairness in that. 
Your question (What kind of country does this to retirees!) obviously Australia does!
The aged pension here is a darn insult to human beings and no-one can afford to live on it with the cost of utilities such as power, gas, petrol, internet and phone and food up a massive 60% in three years and still on the rise.

People here can no longer afford a mortgage, so what happens, rental property's have also increased their rent charges.
Your  tips: (Tips for getting the Australian Age Pension living in Thailand) are spot on!

We can rent a room off a mate, put his electricity bill in my name but he pays it when it comes, change my Australian bank account address details to reflect his address and then only VISIT Thailand every six weeks because after six weeks stay I believe they Centre link reduce your payments after six weeks , but that means regular flights to and from Australia to Thailand and air fares aint that cheap!

So my vision of hopefully retiring in Thailand while receiving the pension seems to be fading away unfortunately

So six weeks holiday three or four times a year seems to be the only way to go.

Unless the Australian Government act on a massive protest letter/petition from current expats or people wanting to become one.
I am willing to start it if I have the backing of followers because something HAS to be done.

Thank you for your reply with information, hopefully things will change for the better,
Cheers, Jonesy.
 

Offline thaiga

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2013, 07:43:12 PM »

Your  tips: (Tips for getting the Australian Age Pension living in Thailand) are spot on!

So my vision of hopefully retiring in Thailand while receiving the pension seems to be fading away unfortunately

So six weeks holiday three or four times a year seems to be the only way to go.

My heart goes out for you jonesy it doesn't seem fair.

they wasn't my tips i found that post on the website below. i was not suggesting you do that.

http://www.livingthai.org/aussie-pensioners-being-forced-to-live-in-australia.html

Keep in touch,let us guys know how you are. :cheers
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Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2013, 09:37:52 PM »
I too have been in the workforce since I was 14 years old starting as an apprentice electrician, that's nearly 51 years as a taxpayer

That appears to me as you were entitled to receive the full pension, even when staying overseas:

It is possible to get the Age Pension for the whole time you’re overseas, whether you have left Australia on a temporary or permanent basis. If you remain outside Australia for longer than 26 weeks, your pension will be reduced to a proportional rate based on your ‘Australian working life residence’. If you have lived in Australia for 25 years (300 months), then you are paid the full rate of Age Pension to which you are entitled.

If your Australian working life residence since age 16 has been 25 or more years there won't be any reduction. They proportionally reduce only when your Australian working life residence has been less than 25 years, or from next year on less than 35 years.

Better ask at Center Link!

 :cheers
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Offline Baby Farts

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2013, 10:08:47 PM »
Welcome to the forum, Jonesy. :)  One thing I'd like to add about the visa stuff.  If you are on a Non-O Thai wife visa and you divorce, there goes your visa, unless you have Thai children together. Retirement is the way to go. Young single folks have it worst.  If they remain in the Kingdom and work they need a Non-B visa.  If they lose their job, there goes their visa.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2013, 10:20:42 PM »
If your ‘Australian working life residence’ has been for almost 49 years you'll probably get a lot of pension supplements due to having more than 25 years. So you'll likely get the THB 65,000 per month required for the retirement extension. Ask for the "Long Stay Visa" (Non-OA) at the Thai consulate or embassy.
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Offline jonesy2648

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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2013, 06:09:52 PM »
Hi Thaiga, in regards to your reply (they wasn't my tips i found that post on the website below.) I should have followed the website link that you supplied in more detail.
I have discovered that I can actually stay in Thailand for (6months) 26 weeks before they reduce the pension payments and I also should get a large supplement as my working life spans nearly 51 years because starting my working life at 14.

I may just try 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in Australia to avoid the red tape with the embassy or consulate because my Thai wife and I own the property in Korat in joint names which could cause a problem with an assets test which goes with a retirement visa.

Anyway 6 months would be ok for a start
and thanks for all the info from you and also from Baby Farts and all the other members who replied :) much appreciated
Best Regards, Jonesy
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2013, 06:35:05 PM »
I may just try 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in Australia to avoid the red tape with the embassy or consulate because my Thai wife and I own the property in Korat in joint names which could cause a problem with an assets test which goes with a retirement visa.

I don't think, your wife's property (land) could pose a problem, because for one, you can't own land in Thailand as a foreigner, and secondly, adequate own housing is considered a "protected asset", they cannot make you sell and spend the proceeds before granting social pensions. Only what you got in your name in the bank could pose a problem, even if you're holding that for your visa mainly.
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Offline KoratKid

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Re: Retiring as an Aussie Ex pat in Korat Thailand
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2014, 08:45:29 AM »
I see this is an old topic. I hope you have made the move and settled in.

The Australian Government (Centrelink) keep changing the rules usually for their benefit.

If you are confused about the pension and living overseas, please check with C/L and get their decision in writing because some C/L staff work on BLUFF tactics.

About 3 years ago I found a retired couple in Brisbane that were being totally screwed by C/L.
I had a look at their case and advised them to proceed with complaints with a group called Welfare Rights, It was a good thing this couple had kept all of their paper work.

It took over two years but the end result was their full pension was restored and they were paid $43,000. back money, so it was a good win for them.

The bottom line is do not believe everything a C/L staff member tells you. If you are not happy with their decision lodge an appeal, several if you have to because they will back down in the end.

There are some more storys like this on my web site: australianpensioner.org/

I started this site a few years back to try & help Australian pensioners. I have not up dated it for a long time because of ill health and I will be closing it soon because of the same reason.

I hope that helps.

 

 



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