Author Topic: English Teachers and Forums  (Read 3946 times)

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Offline Baby Farts

English Teachers and Forums
« on: June 12, 2010, 06:51:56 AM »
I do not believe that the forums are the best place to judge one's English skills.  More often than not, spoken English is not the same as written English.  If you don't believe me, record one of your everyday conversations.  Play it back and write down all the grammatical errors.  You'd be surprised. 

When I post on a forum, I do so as if I am having a conversation.  I am not here to write a F..cking essay.  This is not about a writing contest, it's about communication....and correcting and criticizing people on their grammar, spelling, vocabulary, etc., (yes, we've all done it) serves no purpose at all.  There is a danger in doing that, because once you start to point out inconsistencies in grammar, spelling, etc., people are going to watch every little word that comes from your pen stroke. You had better make sure you have absolutely NO mistakes in anything you write because the moment you do up, people are going to be on your ass like a fly on Sh.t.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2010, 08:11:17 AM »
I do not believe that the forums are the best place to judge one's English skills. 

You had better make sure you have absolutely NO mistakes in anything you write because the moment you do up, people are going to be on your ass like a fly on Sh.t.


Are forums a good place to judge one's social skills? Too often people post after they had a pint too much and don't see the line between affront, defamation and their own smartness anymore. Sad when it is a teacher or former teacher who displays his lack of social skills on a public forum. ;)

Teachers should be aware of loosing their status when posting on forums in a way not befitting their role. They're supposed to be role models.
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

sicho

  • Guest
Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2010, 08:15:12 AM »
I do not believe that the forums are the best place to judge one's English skills.  More often than not, spoken English is not the same as written English.  If you don't believe me, record one of your everyday conversations.  Play it back and write down all the grammatical errors.  You'd be surprised. 

When I post on a forum, I do so as if I am having a conversation.  I am not here to write a F..cking essay.  This is not about a writing contest, it's about communication....and correcting and criticizing people on their grammar, spelling, vocabulary, etc., (yes, we've all done it) serves no purpose at all.  There is a danger in doing that, because once you start to point out inconsistencies in grammar, spelling, etc., people are going to watch every little word that comes from your pen stroke. You had better make sure you have absolutely NO mistakes in anything you write because the moment you do up, people are going to be on your ass like a fly on Sh.t.


I agree but the writings of those forum members who teach English should always be technically sound. It's a matter of being professional, taking a pride in what you do for a living. We wouldn't want either a doctor to cough germs in his friends face or a lawyer to commit a crime so why should foreign teachers of English not always show their professional skill? If you were looking for a farang English teacher, would you recruit someone who didn't write well? Verbal conversation is often less accurate if only because there is no opportunity to correct what is said after. However, English teachers should always show their skills in conversation too. They teach using the spoken word more than the written word! The English language is rich in subtlety and a joy to use. Teachers should reflect this and respect the language. If someone can't do this he shouldn't be teaching. If can but doesn't care, the same applies.

I exclude Thai school teachers from my argument because few of them have an opportunity to become fluid in English. That's not to say that the situation should not be improved.
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 07:20:28 AM »
I do not believe that the forums are the best place to judge one's English skills. 

You had better make sure you have absolutely NO mistakes in anything you write because the moment you do up, people are going to be on your ass like a fly on Sh.t.


Are forums a good place to judge one's social skills? Too often people post after they had a pint too much and don't see the line between affront, defamation and their own smartness anymore. Sad when it is a teacher or former teacher who displays his lack of social skills on a public forum. ;)

Teachers should be aware of loosing their status when posting on forums in a way not befitting their role. They're supposed to be role models.


It's even sadder when admin allows these defamatory remarks to remain on his forum and does nothing to remove them until forced to do so.

Second point on role models and status.  Give me a break, JF.  How many Thais and Thai schools who employ foreigners read this forum or any other Korat forum?...and even if they did, they probably wouldn't have a clue as to what is being said. Are the teachers who post here employed by you or something? Thais don't give a da.mn about what farangs say about one another on these forums. What they DO care about is how you conduct yourself OUTSIDE of the classroom, your appearance, and habits. A lot of teachers I know drink excessively, smoke way too much, and have a penchant for certain nocturnal activities. I personally know one teacher who got his marching papers for smoking on campus. I think you're seeing way too much into this "Forum Status" thing.




 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 07:32:42 AM »

The foreigner teacher question has many angles, some not pretty, and there are a lot of blaggers but also some capable ones too. This, however, is mostly the fault of the Thais in their quick-fix attitude of "So long as it looks like an orange, then it is an orange." I'm not a teacher, was 3 years ago but done now, but I'm sure you know what I mean. There are good teachers around but there are plenty that represent a joke. It's also the Thai parent attitude that the offspring must have a white face to teach them English or be involved with "EP" programs. It's nothing short of fashion whilst substance, as usual, means sweat FA, same as with so much else here, it's a cultural persective thing.

Edited for clarity

You'd be surprised how many farang managers also apply this quick-fix scheme you speak of, particularly in the private school sector.

Over the past several years I've seen a heavy influx of Filipino and even Indian teachers migrating to Thailand / Korat.  I'm curious how you think the Thais view this. I understand about having a "white face" in the classroom, but do you think the Thais have become more lenient over these past few years?  I have personally known some very competent English teachers from the Philippines and India, so color of skin really shouldn't be an issue...but I guess with many Thais, anything that is dark in color is associated with something bad.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2010, 08:24:54 AM »
It's even sadder when admin allows these defamatory remarks to remain on his forum and does nothing to remove them until forced to do so.

No doubt you chose your nick "Baby Farts" because you feel in need of a babysitter who keeps protecting you from running into trouble and keeps removing the remarks about others and the provocations you posted while loaded beyond capacity.  :P

Quote
Second point on role models and status.  Give me a break, JF.  How many Thais and Thai schools who employ foreigners read this forum or any other Korat forum?

You'd be surprised to find out how many Thai English teachers actually do try to improve their skills by reading foreign media on the internet. And the word gets around awfully fast when something's posted somewhere about them. I do remember the years before the internet when all foreign language newspapers you could get in Korat were printed copies of Bangkok Post and The Nation. Once in a while somebody bought a copy. But not only couldn't many people read the same copy at the same time, they also had to keep looking up words in dictionaries etc., if they were so lucky to even own a good dictionary - which they could have purchased only in Bangkok or a foreign country and at a horrendous price. That got a lot easier now with the internet and computers with translating software! And you can believe that quite a lot of them are making use of it.  :)

As I said before one way to get Thai teachers interested to practice their English and talk with foreigners is discussing (with them) the way you see them and their culture - so they might learn how to become tour guides making loads of money. Of course they're not interested in listening to wisecracks telling them how stupid they are, how backward their country is and how much more knowledgeable and intelligent you and your peers are. ;)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 09:53:59 AM »
...

Wrong, I chose the name, "Baby Farts" because for the first six months after my son was born, he farted a lot and my wife used to say to me, "You fart or baby farts?"   Thanks for your insight, though. Loaded?  I'm sorry JF I don't do drugs, but perhaps you've been around too many people who have.

Uh...I never said anything about Thais reading "Foreign Media."  Please don't try to twist what I said.  I was very specific when I said "FORUMS."  I seriously doubt that ANY Thai would come visit any of these Korat forums to "improve" their English skills. If Thais want to improve their English skills they need more exposure to foreigners in real-time conversation...something that isn't easy to find in Korat.  I've had several students ask me where they can practice their English with farangs in Korat. Where would you tell them to go?  The Mall?  Oh wait.. where do most of the farangs here congregate? I'll tell you where...the local expat watering holes.  Gee, I wonder what they might learn there.

BTW, I know two students who went on to become tour guides and both of them got out of the business once they met a farang and married.  Why?  There is more money to be made in America for a Thai than there is here...I'll bet that even a drive-thru cashier at McDonalds makes more money than the average Thai. I also believe that most Thais are still trying to find their identity and where they rank in the world.  This is probably why many Thais will ask you how you feel about their culture and country. It's a question that always comes up.  I never ask people how they feel about America or American culture.  Have you ever wondered why Thais do this?

Superfluous quoting of the whole preceeding article and nesting quotes removed by admin. ;D
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2010, 11:14:13 AM »
Loaded?  I'm sorry JF I don't do drugs, but perhaps you've been around too many people who have.

Never heard of alcohol being a drug? ;)

Quote
Uh...I never said anything about Thais reading "Foreign Media."  Please don't try to twist what I said.  I was very specific when I said "FORUMS."

No twisting necessary! A forum is a medium like any other webpage or even a printed newspaper. It's just compiled differently and allows direct feedback.

Quote
I seriously doubt that ANY Thai would come visit any of these Korat forums to "improve" their English skills.

Now I wonder whether the occasional posting in broken English and a Thai viewpoint on KF is done by one of your aliases or actually Thais trying to connect? ;)

Quote
If Thais want to improve their English skills they need more exposure to foreigners in real-time conversation...something that isn't easy to find in Korat.  I've had several students ask me where they can practice their English with farangs in Korat. Where would you tell them to go?  The Mall?  Oh wait.. where do most of the farangs here congregate? I'll tell you where...the local expat watering holes.  Gee, I wonder what they might learn there
.

I fully agree on that! That's why  in a former post on this thread I tried to encourage some help. Try to meet them at other places like school fairs or through other Thai teachers. When I was still living in town I had no problems at all getting around in private circles of teachers, police, soldiers, businessmen etc. Some of them even visit me out here in the bushes from time to time.

Quote
There is more money to be made in America for a Thai than there is here...I'll bet that even a drive-thru cashier at McDonalds makes more money than the average Thai.

That is definitely true. Sadly most of that money is needed for living expenses in America, leaving nothing or very little to save or send back to pay back the family who supported their education.

Quote
I also believe that most Thais are still trying to find their identity and where they rank in the world.  This is probably why many Thais will ask you how you feel about their culture and country. It's a question that always comes up.  I never ask people how they feel about America or American culture.  Have you ever wondered why Thais do this?

Good point! When people ask me about my home country they rather give me the impression they want to let me see they ever heard of it. ;)

They want to hear more about the materialism and consumerism that they are on one side exposed to so much and on the other warned so much of and told about sufficiency economy.
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2010, 11:35:16 AM »
Quote
I seriously doubt that ANY Thai would come visit any of these Korat forums to "improve" their English skills.

So you think they use the Google translater tool directly to find out what these nutty farangs are gossipping about them? Or do they resort to the Google translator to confirm their understanding of the unbelievable they had read in English? ;)

translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c

is usually the referrer with the top or second most hits according to our webstats. Don't think native speakers of English are using it to enjoy the posts in another language. :)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2010, 02:00:59 PM »
Yes, Alcohol is a drug which is why I suggested that you hang around too many druggies <wink> just kidding  ;)

I disagree, a forum is not like a printed newspaper as a whole.  It's more like an editorial section of a newspaper where people can post whatever they want, fact or fiction.

If you really feel I'm posting on KF as a Thai with broken English then perhaps you should ask SR since you guys are so tight.  Really, JF...I am not a user on KF anymore and I don't plan on being one in the near or distant future....and you certainly aren't in any position to accuse people of having multiple aliases.  ;)

You say Thais come out to visit you in the bush? (Sorry no pun intended).  I think that's great.  Did you ever get a little nookie on the side during any of those visits? heh heh.  If you did, I envy you. 8)

I don't know about you, but this is the internet and there is no way you can tell who is on the other end of the keyboard.  Web stats don't mean JS... I mean, currently your web stats show you presently have 243 guests online right now, 6 users, and 2 hidden.  Maybe those 243 guests are Thais who have come here to brush up on their English skills.  I'm sure there is some explanation for this.

Let's try and get back to the topic now.  What should Thailand's first step be in rectifying the problem?  Is it even fixable or worth fixing?



 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2010, 02:21:39 PM »
Web stats don't mean JS... I mean, currently your web stats show you presently have 243 guests online right now, 6 users, and 2 hidden.  Maybe those 243 guests are Thais who have come here to brush up on their English skills.  I'm sure there is some explanation for this.

Yes, very simple explanation: You cannot read! It says: "243 Guests, 6 Users, and 2 hidden Users active in past 1440 minutes:..."

And if I as admin click on that I can see all of their IPs plus time and kind of last action. Like that:

Guest (66.219.58.xx)   05:43:22 PM   Viewing the board index of KORATFART.COM - Nakhon Ratchasima Expat Forum for Art, News, Info, Fun, Life and Leisure.
Guest (94.23.53.xxx)   05:13:08 PM   Viewing the board index of KORATFART.COM - Nakhon Ratchasima Expat Forum for Art, News, Info, Fun, Life and Leisure.
Guest (94.142.133.xxx)   05:12:55 PM   Posting a new topic in General Discussions.
Guest (216.104.15.xxx)   05:11:00 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.
Guest (122.252.249.x)   05:09:33 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.
Guest (98.225.216.xxx)   04:59:56 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Tourist Attractions.
Guest (85.64.26.xxx)   04:54:27 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.
Guest (58.241.79.xxx)   04:46:04 PM   Viewing the board index of KORATFART.COM - Nakhon Ratchasima Expat Forum for Art, News, Info, Fun, Life and Leisure.
Guest (203.193.211.xxx)   04:23:32 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.

10 (ten) pages of that. I changed the  last digits of the IPs here for anonymization. You can click on there as well; only you aren't shown the IPs and therefore don't know that they're "unique visitors".

But the referrals I take from the log of the website, not the webstats integrated in the forum software. Totally reliable! Kept for evidence in case of criminal actions. There not only the last action within the last 24 hours is recorded but every action with even a lot further details. ;)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

dirtydog

  • Guest
Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2010, 02:46:18 PM »
Quote
I never ask people how they feel about America or American culture.
heheheh, imagine if you did, how many people and innocents have you amerikans killed in Iraq this week, afghanistan etc etc, then it would go onto Bush being the most hated man in the world, then onto the amerikan gun culture and metal detectors in amerikan skools, probably best not to ask :)
 

Offline Dude

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Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2010, 03:46:36 PM »
Hi JF, don't really want to get caught up in this conversation too much but I'd like to ask you an honest question about this subject whilst we are on it. Which is.....

What about mobile wifi dynamic IP addresses like EDGE/GPRS (ie phones or wifi modems) etc that change a lot, even whilst connected? I would have thought you'd have to be intellegent services to locate them. Sure they are assigned an IP address but it pretty much becomes useless quite quickly, unless the co-operation of AIS/DTAC was forthcoming.

As I say, don't know, just interested. Nice one.

 
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2010, 04:31:56 PM »
What about mobile wifi dynamic IP addresses like EDGE/GPRS (ie phones or wifi modems) etc that change a lot, even whilst connected? I would have thought you'd have to be intellegent services to locate them. Sure they are assigned an IP address but it pretty much becomes useless quite quickly, unless the co-operation of AIS/DTAC was forthcoming.

They are using floating IPs like most internet service providers (ISP) today, i. e. within the range of IPs owned by that ISP you'll be assigned a new everytime you log on. The ranges are known to services on the web like utrace.de, which tells you the ISP and location. If you need to know which phone number used which IP at which time or even who registered that phone number or in case of prepaid cards which shop sold that SIM card you need access to the ISP's data system. That's where  you either gotta be a good hacker or well-connected.  8)

But every visitor leaves more info in the log when visiting a website, like graphics card resolution, operating system, browser type etc. that help with the identification. ;)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Yandex

  • Guest
Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2010, 04:34:16 PM »
Web stats don't mean JS... I mean, currently your web stats show you presently have 243 guests online right now, 6 users, and 2 hidden.  Maybe those 243 guests are Thais who have come here to brush up on their English skills.  I'm sure there is some explanation for this.

Yes, very simple explanation: You cannot read! It says: "243 Guests, 6 Users, and 2 hidden Users active in past 1440 minutes:..."

And if I as admin click on that I can see all of their IPs plus time and kind of last action. Like that:

Guest (66.219.58.xx)   05:43:22 PM   Viewing the board index of KORATFART.COM - Nakhon Ratchasima Expat Forum for Art, News, Info, Fun, Life and Leisure.
Guest (94.23.53.xxx)   05:13:08 PM   Viewing the board index of KORATFART.COM - Nakhon Ratchasima Expat Forum for Art, News, Info, Fun, Life and Leisure.
Guest (94.142.133.xxx)   05:12:55 PM   Posting a new topic in General Discussions.
Guest (216.104.15.xxx)   05:11:00 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.
Guest (122.252.249.x)   05:09:33 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.
Guest (98.225.216.xxx)   04:59:56 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Tourist Attractions.
Guest (85.64.26.xxx)   04:54:27 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.
Guest (58.241.79.xxx)   04:46:04 PM   Viewing the board index of KORATFART.COM - Nakhon Ratchasima Expat Forum for Art, News, Info, Fun, Life and Leisure.
Guest (203.193.211.xxx)   04:23:32 PM   Viewing the topic Korat Girls.

10 (ten) pages of that. I changed the  last digits of the IPs here for anonymization. You can click on there as well; only you aren't shown the IPs and therefore don't know that they're "unique visitors".

But the referrals I take from the log of the website, not the webstats integrated in the forum software. Totally reliable! Kept for evidence in case of criminal actions. There not only the last action within the last 24 hours is recorded but every action with even a lot further details. ;)

A lot of international IP addresses but so few posters. One has to ask the question why.

How many are bots? google, yahoo, MSN, spambots, etc, and how many are real people actually reading the topics or posting in them?

IPs from Latvia (spambot), China (spambot?), USA (spambot or other bot?),  France, Israel, Australia.



 
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2010, 04:56:23 PM »
Me as admin the board tells a little more about this:

268 Guests, 7 Users (32 Spiders)
Users active in past 1440 minutes:
... Yahoo! (2), Omgili, MSN (3), Google (5), Cuil, Baidu (16), Ask (3), Alexa

The searchbots, if known as such, are not recorded as guests. The spambots are usually recorded by the board stats as posting attempts. This for example was a spambot trying its luck from DonEkoService Ltd, Saint Petersburg (RU):

Guest (91.201.66.14)   05:37:44 PM   Posting a new topic in General Discussions.

We don't have as many yet for the board not being so old and popular. If you look at boards more well known and on the web much longer the percentage of spambot accesses is considerably higher.
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

dirtydog

  • Guest
Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2010, 05:31:11 PM »
each pc has a unique MAC, this isn't accessible at forum level but is on some servers at server or root.
 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2010, 06:33:17 PM »
each pc has a unique MAC, this isn't accessible at forum level but is on some servers at server or root.

And if there isn't a mod yet to display that beside the IP under each post I bet a mod can be made. Do we need it? ;)
Fun is the one thing that money can't buy
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2010, 06:51:15 PM »
Quote
I never ask people how they feel about America or American culture.
heheheh, imagine if you did, how many people and innocents have you amerikans killed in Iraq this week, afghanistan etc etc, then it would go onto Bush being the most hated man in the world, then onto the amerikan gun culture and metal detectors in amerikan skools, probably best not to ask :)

On the sauce again?  Why not ask how many people the Russians, Germans, even British killed?  Why is it that ... (some people) can only focus on Americans? Do you even know why we are a gun culture?  Go back and read up on U.S history.  You judge a nation on one person..George Bush. LOL.  I think the heat is getting to you down there in Pattaya...if that's where you really are.

edit. by admin.: personal insults removed
 

Offline Baby Farts

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2010, 07:09:58 PM »
What about mobile wifi dynamic IP addresses like EDGE/GPRS (ie phones or wifi modems) etc that change a lot, even whilst connected? I would have thought you'd have to be intellegent services to locate them. Sure they are assigned an IP address but it pretty much becomes useless quite quickly, unless the co-operation of AIS/DTAC was forthcoming.

They are using floating IPs like most internet service providers (ISP) today, i. e. within the range of IPs owned by that ISP you'll be assigned a new everytime you log on. The ranges are known to services on the web like utrace.de, which tells you the ISP and location. If you need to know which phone number used which IP at which time or even who registered that phone number or in case of prepaid cards which shop sold that SIM card you need access to the ISP's data system. That's where  you either gotta be a good hacker or well-connected.  8)

But every visitor leaves more info in the log when visiting a website, like graphics card resolution, operating system, browser type etc. that help with the identification. ;)

Very very easy to get around. Most people don't know how to change their ip address so allow me to demonstrate using vista 64x as an example.

1) Go to a DOS prompt and type CMD
2) Type ipconfig /release
3) Open up control panel and go to Network connections.
4) Go to manage network connections
5) Right click Local area Network and click properties
6) go to Internet Protocol Version 4
7) Hit properties
8) Select "Use the following IP address.  Enter 111.111.111.111 or any other number.  Then hit tab.
9) Hit close
10) Go back to Local area Network. and repeat step 6 and 7.  Select "Obtain IP address automatically.
 Viloa! New ip address in less than a minute.

Changing the computer and machine name?  So easy that I'm not even going to explain how to do it. You can always set up a box to use an anonymous proxy.  If you really want to mess with the admins, just go and post from several different internet cafes in your neighborhood...plenty of them here in Korat. You can always use proxy software that will automatically change your IP for you every XX minutes that you specify. You do have more than one computer don't you?  With forum like this, there really isn't a need to go through so much trouble as anyone can log on and post whatever they want as a guest.

There are also several Perl Scripts that can easily allow you to hack SMF machines forums including this beta JF is running.

For me, if I really wanted to hack into a system I wouldn't be running MS WINDOWS like most of the noobies here.  I get on my Linux box, spoof and IP and there is no WAY in hell you will know who I am. 

 

Offline Johnnie F.

Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2010, 07:28:53 PM »
Very very easy to get around. Most people don't know how to change their ip address so allow me to demonstrate using vista 64x as an example.

Looks like your IP trick didn't work. ;)
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Offline Dude

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Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2010, 07:46:25 PM »
Thanks for the reply JF, interesting.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
 

English teacher

  • Guest
Re: English Teachers and Forums
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2010, 04:03:25 PM »
Thanks for the reply JF,very  interesting.
 

 



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